Quick question about towing..

[Maxnaggle]

Hi Arbs! Is it okay to tow a 1200kg chipper using an empty iveco daily 3.5t on a post '97 licence? As the actual kerb side weight should be a smidge below 3.5t.

After doing a bit of research, it looks as though the maximum authorised mass of the van + chipper would be 4.7t - in which case a towing licence would be needed?

 

Thanks!

 

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[Homegrown]

After doing a bit of research, it looks as though the maximum authorised mass of the van + chipper would be 4.7t - in which case a towing licence would be needed?

 

Yes you'd need B+E as soon as the trailer MAM exceeds 750kg with the one exception that if the MAM of the tow vehicle plus the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed 3.5 tonnes you may still tow with B obtained before 2013 after which B entitlement is further restricted to only 750kg I think. As far as I can see this exception will be use to car drivers wishing to pull a caravan as not many commercial vehicles will be that light.

 

I'd advise any B licence holder in this trade to go for the +E while you are still young.

[Maxnaggle]

Thank you

 

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[Justme]

Yes you'd need B+E as soon as the trailer MAM exceeds 750kg with the one exception that if the MAM of the tow vehicle plus the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed 3.5 tonnes you may still tow with B obtained before 2013 after which B entitlement is further restricted to only 750kg I think. As far as I can see this exception will be use to car drivers wishing to pull a caravan as not many commercial vehicles will be that light.

 

I'd advise any B licence holder in this trade to go for the +E while you are still young.

 

Do you have a source for that? I have seen it mentioned in a few places but none authoritative.

 

This is what the .gov site says

Licences issued from 19 January 2013

From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow:

 

small trailers weighing no more than 750kg

a trailer over 750kg as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)

 

Which is almost the same wording as the pre 2013 regs but with the same meaning.

 

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

 

drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM

tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

 

The only recent change was the removal of the bit about the trailers MAM cant be more than the unladen weight of the tow vehicle.

 

Re the OP you need a B+E.

 

Its the plated weights not the actual weights for this bit of legislation.

[Homegrown]

Do you have a source for that? I have seen it mentioned in a few places but none authoritative.

 

NO I think you are right and so you should be with that sig. I have not had time to re read the leglislation but a quick search on arbtalk archive shows much as you say and I was unsure. So the change after 2013 is only that the trailer being towed cannot exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.

 

As an aside I have never been keen on trailers with overrun brakes being towed by lighter vehicles.

 

As I said I think this bit of the licensing change was more to do with punters pulling caravans with cars rather than us commercial users because how many vans able to tow, say 1200kg, have a MAM of less than 2300? I can only think of a Kangoo from our fleet.

[SamCCM]

Does this apply both with & without braked trailers?

[Justme]

NO I think you are right and so you should be with that sig.

 

So the change after 2013 is only that the trailer being towed cannot exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.

 

 

I would hope so but its really difficult to keep on top of the really crap legislation & .gov web site that contradicts itself all over the place.

 

The dif between pre & post 2013 is in effect nothing. There used to be a difference but now there is not. There is no Law that says that the trailer cant weigh more than the car just as there is no law that says you have to keep to the makers recommended towing limit. However failing to do so could / would be seen by a court to be reckless/ dangerous ect.

[Justme]

Does this apply both with & without braked trailers?

 

Sorry does what apply?

 

An unbraked trailer MUST have a MAM of 750kg or less.

 

So with an unbraked trailer of the max MAM you can tow it with ANY cat B car of less than 3500kg MAM

 

IE ANY cat B licence holder can drive any cat B vehicle & can tow ANY unbraked trailer. As long as the trailer complies to the C&U regs.

 

A braked trailer under 750kg comes under the same rules as above.

 

A braked trailer over 750kg can only be towed if the combined MAM of car & trailer is 3500kg or less.

[openspaceman]

 

An unbraked trailer MUST have a MAM of 750kg or less.

 

.

 

and not "drawn by a vehicle of which the kerbside weight is less than twice the sum of the unladen weight of the trailer and the weight of any load which the trailer is carrying."

 

C&U reg 87b

 

Which means the vehicle, full of fuel but otherwise unladen and without driver must weigh twice the unbraked trailer, so biggest trailer needs a vehicle with kerb weight of 1500kg.

[Justme]

C&U regs are complex & far reaching.