BS5837 and Veteran Trees

[jacquemontii]

During a BS5837 survey I recently identified an oak that may qualify as a veteran, based on the girth. What criteria and references do people use to identify the presence of a veteran tree on site, as per section 4.5.11 of the BS?

 

The tree in question has a girth of 4.5m and I am basing my conclusion on guidance in ‘Ancient and other veteran trees: further guidance on management’. In this instance I have referred to section 1.2 Definition of ancient and veteran trees, fig 1.3 Chart of girth in relation to age and development classification of trees. According to this chart my tree appears to be on the cusp of being locally notable and veteran, so possibly it falls short of the veteran status at this stage.

 

Whilst I realise there are many features and characteristics associated with veteran trees, if you’re going to categorise a tree as a veteran, then a classification chart is a very useful way to demonstrate and justify this to the client for whom there will be inevitable design implications.

[Chris at eden]

I think it was Nev Fay who wrote a paper a few years ago and suggested that for trees to be veteran they should have at least 4 vet features. e.g. cavity, deadwood, water pools/pockets, and bracket fungi, etc. I tend to stick with that. I personally think that the actual girth more relates to the age and I would use this for designating a tree as ancient. There is a big oak tree not far from where I live with a large stem diameter but no vet features. Bit of deadwood, that's about it.

 

I did the special trees unit as one of my options for my L6 and this is the approach I took. Dave Dowson seemed ok with it so I stuck to it. I thought I would love the unit but the whole subject is so wholly I found it a bit of an anti-climax.

[daltontrees]

I agree, it's never size that makes a veteran. The Ancient Tree Forum has produced a leaflet explaining that veteran and ancient are not the same thing. Whta htey have in common is deadwood havbitat and character, but as the ATF says even young trees cna be veterans. The big difference is that veterans have survived some trauma and struggle on but ancient ones are succumbing to old age but struggle on.

 

The chart you are referring to just indicates that by the time notables get a little bigger they usually have suffered trauma, arguably the start of retrenchment. I don't think it's a ssimple as a tree mvign from locally notable to notable to veteran to ancient.

 

Here's another thing. That chart is very vague, but I have taken the view that the vertical lines on it mark the whole numbers. If so, at 4.5 metres an oak will be on the border between veteran and ancient. But the chart just gives potential, and there is a great range of individual characteristics within a species. So, I had one last month big enough to be ancient but not a single ancient or veteran feature to be seen. The day before I had seen one with much lesser girth making it in theory notable size, but it was almost fully retrenched and was clearly ancient. It was in an exposed position. You've got to take into account growth conditions and allow for there being strong and weak individuals.

 

So forget size, it's a useful tool b ut it is not the defining thing. The features are, because what is important is long-term deadwood habitat. That's what the Neville Fay article is all about. He also refers toa class of veternad called transition veterans that are trauma survivors but haven't been that way for long enough to develop the habitat. They are future veterans.

 

Ironically, they can be B/C1 or B/C2 but as they get worse they leap to A3. The cascade chart in BS5837 is sometimes like a snakes and ladders board...

[daltontrees]

Here's my adaptation of the ATF chart, I have inserted a row for diameter.

[jacquemontii]

"snakes and ladders board" I like that! great summary of the BS!

 

I will look more closely at the defining features in future. I do however think that in order to classify a tree as A3 it would also have to be a tree of such proportions for the species, that it would be obvious to most (developers) that the tree was worthy of special retention. This is also allowing for retrenched ancient trees.

 

Thanks for the advice, and sharing your adapted ATF chart. Very useful for those of us who regularly work to diameters.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Ancient and other veteran trees: further guidance on management (David Lonsdale)

ISBN: 978-0-904853-09-4

£20 from Ancient Tree Forum

 

Good book!

[sloth]

Ancient and other veteran trees: further guidance on management (David Lonsdale)

ISBN: 978-0-904853-09-4

£20 from Ancient Tree Forum

 

Good book!

 

Very good book indeed, paid £30 for mine, I think I heard it is now available free as a pdf too, so no excuse not to read it!

[daltontrees]

Very good book indeed, paid £30 for mine, I think I heard it is now available free as a pdf too, so no excuse not to read it!

 

Any idea where I can get it as pdf? I am not baulking at the cost, I just don't have the shelf space and I am increasingly scanning my books and running them through a OCR decoder so that if need be I can copy and paste text from them for reports and the like; if I get the book in pdf it is a lot lot more useful

[sloth]

Not sure I'm afraid, and I may be wrong. I'll have a quick look and report back for the benefit of anyone else who cares too. Back in a min...

[sloth]

That was easier than expected! On the vetree site. Here you go...

 

http://www.vetree.eu/action?action=downloadables-download&file=27