Load Sensing Hydraulics

[Craig.]

The power beyond, most common use is for a separate spool block for a loader, so cant see a problem for your winch set up.

I have a remote control hydraulic winch, on my truck for loading non running plant, of if struggling for traction/or safety on ramps, which uses as treequip says just an open centre valve, OK the remote works air solenoids, which allow pressure moves the spool, but still the same effect, on or off.

If I need a bit move control I just run the pto at a lower rpm, not perfect but acceptable for what is needed.

If I need true proportional control I have to use to spool leaver manually.

[treequip]

I'm not sure that it would - there is some sort of pilot control line that 'Signals' the pump to deliver oil. How would an open centre valve incorporate this? There are no manual controls on the tractor to activate this particular spool, just 3 (1 large supply, 1 large drain and 1 small pilot control) hydraulic fittings on the back.

 

Hmmmm, so the pilot control signals the pump by either pressure or pressure relief.

 

I am afraid I don't know enough about that system to say one way or the other.

[monkeybusiness]

You won't get more output by using 2 of the tractors spool valves.

 

Sounds like the winch will need to be connected to power beyond to get the flow you require.

 

A PTO pump requires a reservoir and 150-200 litres of oil so is not a cheap option.It may also prevent you from attaching what you want to the rear e.g 3 point linkage.

 

 

Sorry - you posted as I was replying to Treequip. I have been told by a couple of people (one is the Deutz dealer that supplied my tractor) that doubling the spools and sending through a big hose will increase the flow, but I'm not overly convinced tbh. The issues you raise about the reservoir etc also put me off the PTO pump route. I'm trying to work out if the power beyond can be controlled for a reasonable outlay, but have been quoted vastly different (and all super expensive!) prices for control mechanisms. It isn't a system I have any familiarity with unfortunately, and I don't know where else to look for advice.

[Breezeblock]

are you sure that its load sensing as this requires a load sensing line to go back to the pump to control the flow

[Breezeblock]

Hmmmm, so the pilot control signals the pump by either pressure or pressure relief.

 

I am afraid I don't know enough about that system to say one way or the other.

 

on load sensing the primary relief valve controls the ls signal it is completely different to open centre gear pump systems like most of our stuff uses far more advanced to save fuel and maximise engine power use

[monkeybusiness]

are you sure that its load sensing as this requires a load sensing line to go back to the pump to control the flow

 

Afraid so, yes. That apparently has a serious bearing on cost!

[Breezeblock]

Afraid so, yes. That apparently has a serious bearing on cost!

 

if you go this route prepare to empty your wallet as the 2 systems are not compatible your john deere power thing is a tandem gear pump and the ls control is for swash plate piston pumps with a closed centre valve. i presume the winch is just a motor with a pilot offshoot for the brake i would think that it would be easier just to replace the control for this with an open centre type proportional valve remember with a gear pump you can't get more flow than the pump can produce with the available engine power with ls you can as the pressure goes up you can reduce the flow to relieve the load on the engine . also why bother with proportional i take it its for dragging out timber is such a fine control required as this adds to expense and complexity

Edited December 30, 2014 by Breezeblock
forgot to add

[monkeybusiness]

It isn't on a John Deere - I assume power beyond is a name for the system not tied to any particular manufacturer. The pump that supplies this system is a swash plate jobby. I think the other 'normal' spools on the tractor are supplied by run of the mill gear pumps (but I could be wrong).

The proportional thing is just me looking for a tip-top set up - I'm not sure how fast this winch runs at full chat and would ideally like to have some control over it if it isn't going to cost massively more than a basic in/out set up. Either way I need a load sensing spool block with the ability to take 12v remote control from somewhere if this set up is going to work, and could do with knowing where best (ie cheapest!) to look.

[Breezeblock]

whitehouse hydraulics google them port glasgow

[Agi-Smash]

I would stand back, look, think and ask.

Mixing oc and cc hydraulics can get very expensive, plug the wrong pipe in, or open the wrong valve and the wrong time and ££££££.

having said that i use both pumps on a thru drive from transmission quite successfully. 80cc ls pump and 33cc gear pump at up to 2350rpm 190bar with 150 ltr tank.