Srt/rads?

[combined tree services]

i was looking at the rads system and it looks like it would be just as simple to use an art rope guide and jock jack set up and to add still use the rope walker system as shown in the u tube clip , has anyone tried this before ??

[Rupe]

I dont see the point of the RADS system as its been described here. I think something is wrong. Rads is supposed to be a 3:1 advantage system but as described here its not.

 

There is no need for the footloop on the handled ascender. You pull on the standign part of the rope and it give you a 3:1 pull and the belay device takes in the slack automatically and allows you to branch walk or descend and therefore work the tree during ascent which you cant do on a true SRT system.

 

Standing in the footloop means your not usign the 3:1 part of the system so its a bit pointless, you'd be better off using a standard srt set up and just going on straight up the rope. ANother way of using the RAds sytem is to have a pantin on the standing part of the rope and use that to stand on.

 

The u-tube clip is really pointless too, as left and right cmi foot ascenders have been around for ever and now there is a right foot pantin aswell.

 

I think there is too much overcomplicatign going on.

[Marc]

i was looking at the rads system and it looks like it would be just as simple to use an art rope guide and jock jack set up and to add still use the rope walker system as shown in the u tube clip , has anyone tried this before ??

 

I reckon Gerry's (the guy in the you tube clip) system would work very smoothly with a cockjack and ropeguide, he use's 2 petzel pantins, i would of thought a pantin and a petzel basic would be better.

 

Only your missing some of the advantages of SRT, the easier set-up, the benefit of having 2 seperate systems to work the tree etc.

[DrewB]

i think geralds setup is really good, not too complicated and makes you use your legs more. Ive tried the RADS setup but didnt get on with it-does the eddy make heaps of difference marc? i just used a vt instead. Could i use a spiderjack2 or not really for single line? cheers for the info marc

[DrewB]

Myself and ross are going to climb a big kauri with a non-climber also-might set up geralds system for him to use. will also try and geta video of us SRT into this beauty of a tree.

[Marc]

Hi Rupe must of missed your post last night, i look back and see i did say 2-1 my mistake i guess?

No offence but the footloop is essential with the Rads it speeds ascent and allows you to use your leg muscles and get into an ascent rythme which cannot be achieved without it, the Rads is not the most effcient (although far easier than footlock or body thrust and more versatile).

I then described and showed in the pics that once your in the canopy you can stop using the footloop, your then just using the ascender and tail to advance, and on limb walks and re-ascent the 3-1 advantage comes into its own.

 

Using a pantin on the Rads has proved useless as ascent is not as rapid and is awkard.

 

I think Beraneks technique looks sound, i don't think it would be possible to use left and right foot ascenders on the tail of a doubled line system, hence the video showing a technique where you can use 2 to good effect.

 

I also don't think these systems are over complicated, the rads is so simple its just a handle ascender with footloop, Eddy and pulley very easy to set-up and fairly hard to get wrong and a good intro to SRT to progress from.

 

There is no need for the footloop on the handled ascender. You pull on the standign part of the rope and it give you a 3:1 pull and the belay device takes in the slack automatically and allows you to branch walk or descend and therefore work the tree during ascent which you cant do on a true SRT system.

 

Standing in the footloop means your not usign the 3:1 part of the system so its a bit pointless, you'd be better off using a standard srt set up and just going on straight up the rope. ANother way of using the RAds sytem is to have a pantin on the standing part of the rope and use that to stand on.

 

The u-tube clip is really pointless too, as left and right cmi foot ascenders have been around for ever and now there is a right foot pantin aswell.

 

I think there is too much overcomplicatign going on.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Marc

[Rupe]

Ok, I see what you mean about the normal system re: two foot ascenders clashing with each other. I havn't tried anything like that so I'll keep my nose out.

 

BUT. With the rads, its supposed to be inefficient in a way, its a 3:1 easy pull but slow. If you gonna just stand in the footloop then you don't need all the rest, use a chest ascender and go quickly like SRT is meant to be. Once you stand in the footloop you still have 3 times more slack to pull through than necessary.

 

 

I still think that the system as shown (with footloop) is not how rads is supposed to be used and its not the frog system either, kind of neither one thing nor t'other.

[Marc]

BUT. With the rads, its supposed to be inefficient in a way, its a 3:1 easy pull but slow. If you gonna just stand in the footloop then you don't need all the rest, use a chest ascender and go quickly like SRT is meant to be. Once you stand in the footloop you still have 3 times more slack to pull through than necessary.

 

 

I still think that the system as shown (with footloop) is not how rads is supposed to be used and its not the frog system either, kind of neither one thing nor t'other.

 

You are in a way right rupe, with the footloop tho it is possible to stand and pull with one fluid motion all the slack through and make good progress fairly easily, this is handy to reach the first few branches, then the system comes into its own with its ability to go up or down and work.

 

Like i said its a good system to have in the tool kit, very versatile, not kit intensive easy to set-up, well i'm just repeating my self now.

 

Its a good system for say dead wooding certain pines or other single stemed trees, the ease and speed of setting up, no need to isolate a branch, go up come down on one system job done,

[Marc]

A device like the eddy does make a difference with the rads system, a VT has sit back and will not descend well on a single line.

The Eddy also works better than a cinch or gri gri due to its larger diameter cam giving smoother control, it also has the added bonus of anti panic function, its more compact and i think better suited to treework than a Petzl I'd to.

 

As for a Lockjack,, i'm not 100% sure, but i'd say its not suited to single line, it has a smaller and different designed cam action compared to a purpose designed single line device.

I've been told it works on a single line tho, and the manual doesn't say you can not use it, but it also doesn't say you can!

Use the right tool for the job in my opinion.

 

i think geralds setup is really good, not too complicated and makes you use your legs more. Ive tried the RADS setup but didnt get on with it-does the eddy make heaps of difference marc? i just used a vt instead. Could i use a spiderjack2 or not really for single line? cheers for the info marc

[Rupe]

Sure I have used the rads system and it was fine as you described, single line and working on the way up, and descending. I just feel that the footloop misses out the point that the rads is meant to be a 3:1 and if using a footloop for effiviency then the normal frog system on srt is better. I would use rads for getting friends up a tree who don't climb.

 

I will however try it one day with the footloop and I'll see what happens.