TPO tree taken down with out consent

[armybloke]

You may find this link useful

 

Enforcing tree protection offences | Planning Practice Guidance

[armybloke]

and even better this link

 

Flowchart 6: Offences | Planning Practice Guidance

 

As an ex-TO enforcement is carried out by the councils enforcement team and pursuance is judged on evidence, the Tree Officers judgement of the case and previous. Other factors are considered but the cost is irrelevant. Bringing a criminal to justice is seen as cost effective AND in the public interest.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

That's a good one John!

 

I've had exactly that "charge" levelled against me - supposedly doing work at the weekend to avoid the beady eye or control measures of local authority.

 

It was a site clearance for development, yes there were TPO's, yes there was local opposition to the development (which actually resulted in me engaging the community liaison bobby to warn those that were in danger of breaching the Public Order Act to behave themselves like decent human beings)

 

Even the magistrate who lived directly opposite the site was involved in a campaign of indignant letter writing and complaints that work was being done at the weekend to avoid LA scrutiny!

 

You'd like to think a supposedly upstanding member of the community, and presumably an intelligent human being would have realised the "charge" was no more than the last desperate attempts to kibosh a lawful development.

 

Or did he really think that the work done over the weekend (to avoid LA scrutiny) would magically be "undone" and invisible to the LA come Monday morning?

[Gary Prentice]

Interesting thread but I find it rather ironic some of the views expressed anybody would think the industry is whiter than white with no weekend or bank holiday working when the council offices are shut.

 

I can't unfortunately disagree that it does occur. It's not something i'd entertain because of the loss of credibility with the LA's. We've felled protected trees, after planning cocked up, but my first phone call was to the TO. to defend us, based on the working relationship developed over years

[A Pettersen-Firewood&Chip]

Just out of curiosity, something I have not come across and cant seem to find any answer to online.

 

What would happen if you felled a tree without landowners/tree owners permission?

(No tpo and no restrictions)

 

Would that hold similar offences to a tpo'd tree or would it be simply a case of re-planting?

 

I would guess from basic laws it would be criminal damage and theft.

(Criminal damage felling the tree and theft taking waste away)

Edited May 26, 2015 by A Pettersen-Firewood&Chip

[Gary Prentice]

I've been involved ( from the owners side) in this. The first PC involved was all for criminal prosecution but that wasn't eventually pursued. Probably not in the public interest.

 

I gathered information for a civil case, measuring the dbh of the trees felled and getting quotes from Barchams for like for like replacements, plus stump grinding, planting and establishment costs.

 

These were a number of young self-seeded trees in a field blocking a new neighbours view, that he decided to fell one Saturday morning. The cost for the trees alone was near £40,000

 

I don't know if it's been to court yet, but the barrister, apparently, thought it was a slam dunk case particularly because the liability had been established by the police.

 

LAs successfully use CAVAT for calculating tree values in their prosecutions.

[A Pettersen-Firewood&Chip]

I've been involved ( from the owners side) in this. The first PC involved was all for criminal prosecution but that wasn't eventually pursued. Probably not in the public interest.

 

 

 

I gathered information for a civil case, measuring the dbh of the trees felled and getting quotes from Barchams for like for like replacements, plus stump grinding, planting and establishment costs.

 

 

 

These were a number of young self-seeded trees in a field blocking a new neighbours view, that he decided to fell one Saturday morning. The cost for the trees alone was near £40,000

 

 

 

I don't know if it's been to court yet, but the barrister, apparently, thought it was a slam dunk case particularly because the liability had been established by the police.

 

 

 

LAs successfully use CAVAT for calculating tree values in their prosecutions.

 

 

So it becomes more of a civil matter rather than any lawful matter unless witnessed?

 

I guess it all comes down to the trees location and the purpose of the tree for the cost?

 

£40,000 for the trees and rectifying the damage is almost the same as a TPO.

 

Thanks for your view on this, i have heard many stories of people felling neighbour trees and have always wondered what the law has to say.

[daltontrees]

I was involved in one a couple of months ago, the police caught him at it, it went to sherrif court, reparation had to be paid (which is what I did a report for) and he got 150 hours community service and apparently misssed getting a custodial sentence by a bohair.

[Gary Prentice]

The main difference between criminal and civil is the burden of proof, criminal is the 'beyond reasonable doubt' requirement and civil more 'the balance of probability'.

 

In the case I'm talking about, the idea was to demonstrate to a magistrate the loss that the owner had occurred by the neighbours actions. To return the land to the pre-felling position by planting trees of a similar size (and getting them established)

 

On the TPO infringement side, fines are set out on levels that exist for lots of other things. Some courts have successfully used the gain from the action to level much larger fines e.g increasing the development value of the land.

 

In civil cases I think the level of costs would be more linked to the loss incurred by the owner and the cost of returning the land back to near what it was. If you look at the CAVAT values of mature, prominent trees they can run into tens, even hundreds, of thousands. Whether a judge/magistrate would accept the calculations may be another matter.

[Gary Prentice]

I was involved in one a couple of months ago, the police caught him at it, it went to sherrif court, reparation had to be paid (which is what I did a report for) and he got 150 hours community service and apparently misssed getting a custodial sentence by a bohair.

 

Strangely, the weekend that my clients trees were felled, someone in the same cul-de-sac felled a small group of trees, in a common area, to the front of the same property. Unfortunately no-one witnessed the event. I'm not suggesting the same person was involved as I'm sure it was coincidental.