Level 6 Diploma In Arboriculture (ABC) Industry Rejection???

[Marula]

thanks Paul,

think your correct on what your saying, and I will probably go down the L6 route myself, just want to make sure its the qualification to go for.

So am right I right in thinking that the course runs over 2years, but you have another 3 years to submit all your work?

 

many thanks

simon

 

You will have a few years to get through it but really aim at the 2 years. The further you get from the lecture the more difficult it gets to remember what they want in the answer. This course is based on boxes that must be ticked by the lecturer when marking. So there isn't really room for self interpretation which means when you get the assignment and have sat the lecture you will need to use the guidance handed out of what they are looking for a successful answer. A year or two between assignments could leave yo really overly confused. I'm saying this from having friends in this position and what they've said to me.

[Chris at eden]

Does anyone know what the pass rate is from Treelife? How many have gained the diploma? At MM my solo pass gives them about a 10% pass rate. Pretty piss poor in my mind!

 

I asked Dave the question when I dropped off my portfolio. Don't quote me on this but I think he said he had 14 going to moderation which was about 35%.

 

Phone Keely though and ask, I'm sure she will tell you. ABC apparently also described them as an exemplar training provider. I've done loads of stuff with them, in my experience other training providers don't come close. That may be that their style just suits me though. They really encourage discussion and debate, sort of like a learning forum so its always interesting. I'm not a fan of power point and they really keep that to a minimum.

 

You'd think i'd be glad I am finished but I kind of miss it. Bit sad that really.

[Chris at eden]

I found getting it first off was easier. Like I said in my other post I just did not have the time after an 11 - 13 hour day to sit and re-sub stuff.

As for the question on how many finished, I know a few that are still plugging away.

 

Suppose you have to find what suits you really. I did it with a new born which was a real killer at times. Its all about determination and setting your self small achievable targets.

[Chris at eden]

You will have a few years to get through it but really aim at the 2 years. The further you get from the lecture the more difficult it gets to remember what they want in the answer. This course is based on boxes that must be ticked by the lecturer when marking. So there isn't really room for self interpretation which means when you get the assignment and have sat the lecture you will need to use the guidance handed out of what they are looking for a successful answer. A year or two between assignments could leave yo really overly confused. I'm saying this from having friends in this position and what they've said to me.

 

I agree. Some of the lads were into their third year in my group which treelife did at a reduced cost I think. It was the only way they could stay motivated so they kept attending and filling in the gaps from their first year. Aim for two years though, it can be done.

[Gary Prentice]

I asked Dave the question when I dropped off my portfolio. Don't quote me on this but I think he said he had 14 going to moderation which was about 35%.

 

Phone Keely though and ask, I'm sure she will tell you. ABC apparently also described them as an exemplar training provider. I've done loads of stuff with them, in my experience other training providers don't come close. That may be that their style just suits me though. They really encourage discussion and debate, sort of like a learning forum so its always interesting. I'm not a fan of power point and they really keep that to a minimum.

 

You'd think i'd be glad I am finished but I kind of miss it. Bit sad that really.

 

We miss you too Chris:lol:

 

Just to clarify the pass rate issue a bit. Theoretically everyone who completes the course should pass, it's those that fall by the wayside that fail. The internal moderation means that every answer to every question is right. Some just take a little longer to get there.

 

Six people started, one left after the first day, a second halfway through the first year. So the maximum pass rate, assuming the remainder finish on time would be 66%. Speaking for myself, I'm unlikely to complete everything by June, so statistically the pass rate falls further, Its a case of 'lies, damned lies and statistics'.

 

If you start it, apply yourself with every waking hour available (and do it at Treelife) the chances are 100% you'll pass.

[hokum93]

My understanding is that the course was set up to run for 5 years. After this date it is up for review and updating if needed. Those who enrolled on day 1 therefore could have up to 5 years to complete. As the course is now in year 4 those who enrolled this year will only have 2 years to complete. Quite what the implication will be next year when only 1 year remains I do not know?

[oslac]

Going back to the original poster and the point about validity within the industry and reading many of the comments, I have some concerns with this qualification which I am sure someone will put me right on.

 

I see how this qualification is great for the one gaining it but not so good for the customer who is relying on the knowledge.

 

If it is right that as long as you complete the course, you pass, then in theory there is no way you can fail and no limit to the amount of resits. The only limiting factor is the overall time limit from registration (four years, I think someone mentioned). So where is the learning and where is the retention of that learning. It appears to me that you can submit and submit again and at each submission you move forward a little bit until a pass is reached. There is nothing to test whether you have retained any knowledge.

 

Does this then mean that as a customer, I can't rely for sure on the knowledge of the Consultant as I can't assume the Consultant has remembered anything.

 

I know you cannot assume anything in life for certain (is that an oxymoron?) but for the old Prof Dip and the BSc, you have to show learning by examination and only one re-submission for assignments. For the degree, you are then graded (1st class, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd, pass). If the new L6 was graded, that would give some confidence to the learning.

[Paul Barton]

Going back to the original poster and the point about validity within the industry and reading many of the comments, I have some concerns with this qualification which I am sure someone will put me right on.

 

I see how this qualification is great for the one gaining it but not so good for the customer who is relying on the knowledge.

 

If it is right that as long as you complete the course, you pass, then in theory there is no way you can fail and no limit to the amount of resits. The only limiting factor is the overall time limit from registration (four years, I think someone mentioned). So where is the learning and where is the retention of that learning. It appears to me that you can submit and submit again and at each submission you move forward a little bit until a pass is reached. There is nothing to test whether you have retained any knowledge.

 

Does this then mean that as a customer, I can't rely for sure on the knowledge of the Consultant as I can't assume the Consultant has remembered anything.

 

I know you cannot assume anything in life for certain (is that an oxymoron?) but for the old Prof Dip and the BSc, you have to show learning by examination and only one re-submission for assignments. For the degree, you are then graded (1st class, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd, pass). If the new L6 was graded, that would give some confidence to the learning.

 

I get what you are saying but don't agree.

 

I finished my first degree in 2002 and was assessed via numerous exams as well as a dissertation. I can remember a fair bit about my dissertation as it took months of reading, writing and dialogue with my supervisor about my area of study. In contrast, I can remember very little about the things I wrote in the exams!

 

I am the type of person who can 'learn' and retain information quite well for a short period of time. Great for cramming and passing exams but not great for actual lifelong learning!

 

As a customer, I would rather the consultant providing me with advice knew their subject in detail than had been good at absorbing and regurgitating information given to them.

[Marula]

Well I'll tell you about an experience I had the other day. I read one of the papers I had submitted and passed and it was like learning something all over again. I couldn't remember writing any of it, in fact I was down right impressed with what I was learning......again..... And how academically I had written it. Now I found this and so did my friends, that there was so much work with the time constraints of work, res-subs and new assignments that eventually I was regurgitating information straight onto paper but not taking it in. Like I said in another post, if you had an eight hour day res-subs didn't bother you, if you were cracking a 50 to 70 hour week they murdered you to the point where the assignment became a mission of smashing as much info onto paper and hoping the box would get ticked. I learnt an immense amount during my time but there's stuff I look at now and I can't believe I wrote that down.

[Chris at eden]

I get what you are saying but don't agree.

 

I finished my first degree in 2002 and was assessed via numerous exams as well as a dissertation. I can remember a fair bit about my dissertation as it took months of reading, writing and dialogue with my supervisor about my area of study. In contrast, I can remember very little about the things I wrote in the exams!

 

I am the type of person who can 'learn' and retain information quite well for a short period of time. Great for cramming and passing exams but not great for actual lifelong learning!

 

As a customer, I would rather the consultant providing me with advice knew their subject in detail than had been good at absorbing and regurgitating information given to them.

 

 

Great comments Paul and i agreed 100%. If you do any qualification and then dont use the information for 10 years your retention of the info would be limited at best. Its why CPD is so important. The re-subs in this course are a bit like revision in that you go over them again and again to complete and polish your learning.

 

Gaining these qualifications is for me about proving you can work at a set level not particularly about retaining information. In terms of education its now deemed by most experts that summative assessment on its own does not work and that formative assessment is much better for learning. I did my FE teaching qualification a couple of years ago and this was the focus of the course. The L6 is assessed purely formatively in that you submit and re-submit which forms the basis of your education. This is now best practice. I spoke with someone a few weeks ago who did the MSc in arb and apparently this is entirely course work now which is again formative. You may be able to throw some light on this Paul as i see you have done it yourself? What are your thoughts?

 

Finally, anyone who thinks you cant fail the L6 should sign up and see how that goes for them, or possibly try telling that to the 65% of people who are still working hard to acheive or have dropped out. The work load and level of this course are a challenge and to say you can't fail is just wrong. Sorry about the rant but i know how hard i worked to gain this qualification so i'm a little miffed when people suggest its a dead cert that you pass.