What constitutes a public place

[oslac]

When considering whether a TPO tree has amenity value, is it necessary for the tree to be seen from a public place . . . and if so, what constitutes a public place.

Thanks

[daltontrees]

From government guidance

 

What might a local authority take into account when assessing amenity value?

 

When considering whether trees should be protected by an Order, authorities are advised to develop ways of assessing the amenity value of trees in a structured and consistent way, taking into account the following criteria:

 

Visibility

The extent to which the trees or woodlands can be seen by the public will inform the authority’s assessment of whether the impact on the local environment is significant. The trees, or at least part of them, should normally be visible from a public place, such as a road or footpath, or accessible by the public.

 

Individual, collective and wider impact

Public visibility alone will not be sufficient to warrant an Order. The authority is advised to also assess the particular importance of an individual tree, of groups of trees or of woodlands by reference to its or their characteristics including:

 

size and form;

future potential as an amenity;

rarity, cultural or historic value;

contribution to, and relationship with, the landscape; and

contribution to the character or appearance of a conservation area.

 

Other factors

Where relevant to an assessment of the amenity value of trees or woodlands, authorities may consider taking into account other factors, such as importance to nature conservation or response to climate change. These factors alone would not warrant making an Order.

[oslac]

Putting aside the other factors and only looking at amenity value.

Is it necessary for the tree to have amenity value i.e. can it be seen from a public place and what is a public place.

This is in relation to a TPO appeal not in relation to the serving of a TPO.

Thanks

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Putting aside the other factors and only looking at amenity value.

Is it necessary for the tree to have amenity value i.e. can it be seen from a public place and what is a public place.

This is in relation to a TPO appeal not in relation to the serving of a TPO.

Thanks

 

Hi there, if the LPA have TPO'd the tree they have determined it does have 'amenity value.' Whilst sometimes subjective, as with many things, they often use, for instance, the Helliwell System to back this up in a more objective way. SO "yes" it is necessary for the tree to have amenity value.

 

The what decides if a place is public thing is open to interpretation but could, for instance, include an internal forecourt area to which many have access / views.

 

Hope this helps.

Pual

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

There's some great debate in the "valuation of amenity trees" thread from back in Jan this year.

 

I'd be interested to know a bit more of the background to your question. For example are you looking to challenge the imposition of a TPO, perhaps on the basis that the tree is not visible from a certain place??

[oslac]

Its in relation to a TPO appeal to PINs. The tree is not visible from a public place (acknowledged by the Inspector) but is growing within a rear garden surrounded by numerous 5 storey houses. Most houses will have limited views of the tree. The Inspector has dismissed the appeal partly on grounds of public amenity and saying that as the tree can be seen from numerous private property's, the tree therefore has public visibility and therefore has public amenity.

 

Part of the question is; how many houses should the tree be visible from to have public amenity even when not on view from any public place.

[daltontrees]

Putting aside the other factors and only looking at amenity value.

Is it necessary for the tree to have amenity value i.e. can it be seen from a public place and what is a public place.

This is in relation to a TPO appeal not in relation to the serving of a TPO.

Thanks

 

Sorry, I don't understand. Those are the factors that make up 'amenity value'! You can't put any of them aside.

 

"Is it necessary for the tree to have amenity value i.e. can it be seen from a public place and what is a public place?" Visibility from a public place is not the definition of amenity, and is not enough on its own.

 

A public place is a public place. It has no formal meaning. So think adopted roads and footpaths, commons, public open spaces, parks, town squares...

 

Are you appealing against the making of a TPO or the refusal of TPO consent?

[daltontrees]

The current Guidance is not as helpful as the old Guidance, which was not as fixated on public places but said that a reasonable degree of public benefit must accrue. Your reporter seems to be happy that a reasonable degree of benefit accrues. Is he wrong to conclude that dozens of surrounding residents are sufficient in terms of quantitiy of enjoyment to be equivalent to a 'public'? Proably not. The Act says nothing about 'public', that word only comes from the Guidances.

 

Paraphrasing the old Guidance, what do you conclude, objectively, as to whether their removal would have a significant impact on the local environment and its enjoyment by the surrounding residents? Concentrate on the word 'significant'. Yes or no?

[nepia]

In law generally a public place is any place to which the general public have access, whether on payment or otherwise.

So obviously streets, parks etc but shops sports grounds count when open; they may be privately owned but if the above definition applies then they are a public place.

 

I doubt such a detailed definition (i.e. 'when open') forms much of the deliberation over whether to place a TPO but you did ask!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

It's thought provoking! Does the tree have to be seen from a (technically defined) public open space or does the view of the tree by many residents of "private" spaces make it a public view to be enjoyed for its amenity???