using 4x4 to pull trailer in the woods?

[ArthurBottlesworth]

All problems I unsuccessfully tried to address while I was contracting. And yes my tractors were horribly vandalised. Now I see tractor-loader-trailer combinations travelling to work sites each day from a secure place, they exceed the speed limit but this seems a small risk in comparison and the modern tractors are a dream to drive on the road compared with a 1970s County.

 

I could see the trend soon after I started contracting I give you a timeline, all open to correction and addition:

 

1870s Timber reaches its maximum value in real terms (some 60 times the current real value), it is the universal fuel, structural and utility resource. Small distributed local woodland resource can be worked by a couple of men and a horse, onward transport limited to a 2 tonne two horse cart means the harvesting cost of a single tree is competitive with that from a large clearfell. Sawmills in every town so transport distances short.

 

1900s Coal becomes cheap to transport on railways, coke from gasworks fuels steel output steel already dominates industry, Concrete from portland cement becomes competitive. Wood no longer dominant structural material for building or transport, mechanisation driven by wars increases production and manpower increasingly moves to industry. Scares about coal production being limited by supply of imported timber leads to massive subsidy for reafforestation, especially absorbing labour during the depression. Tarmacked road network begins to impinge on wildlife migration, ultimately leading to massive meta population loss in small woodlands.

 

1970s when I started work, a number of centralised industrial wood processors making use of the new small dimension softwood resource. The short-lived era a motor-manual chainsaw harvesting and agricultural tracor extraction has just begun. Maximum lorry payload now 20 tones ( artic gross at 28) and 6 wheelers with grabs with payload of 12 tonnes are just about economic. Local mills closing but still abundant so small blocks can still be harvested, increasing amounts of softwood thinning. Niche markets enable sorting to sell higher value things like psr, bars, turnery poles to markets up to 100 miles away.

 

Mid 1980s Win-blow provides a fillip for struggling sawmills but size of resource to be harvested triggers import of large numbers of scandinavian forwarder and harvesters. Lorry payloads increase to 29 tonnes so this becomes the minimum load worth harvesting. Landowners happy with small payments for thinning as small machines gently driven at appropriate times not disruptive to other woodland uses. Money is tax free.

 

Early 1990s GATT is the death-knell of small sawmills and even makes some older pulp mills uneconomic. All niche markets using wood for thinks like brush handles close because of competition from imports and substitution by plastics.

 

2000 on harvesters have driven down harvesting costs to make motor manual felling uncompetitive, any ethos of growing quality timber goes out the window with onset of cutter select thinning. Woodlands producing less than 1000 tonne coupes shut the gate. Machines have to work whatever the ground conditions to amortise capital cost. Need space for 5 artics a day to remove produce. Produce assortment reduce to sawlogs, bars and pulp.

 

FC reinvents itself as a conservation and recreation body (IMO once there was no perceived strategic need they should have been dissolved and work distributed to planners, NE and EA). Rise of the "trusts" employing only green wellybooted graduates who will not entertain the old woodlanders for work, The rise of the conservation volunteer and woodland arbwork and loss of the knowledge that most woodland species of flora and fauna depended on a traditional harvesting regime rather than cutting to waste.

 

Great analysis

Proper grip on whats happened and why

[devon TWiG]

Add to the above the fact that now hazel spars for thatching are imported , and increasing amounts of firewood are also being imported leaving woodlands unworked , except for the " conservationists " who seem happy to spend money for no economic return .

[ArthurBottlesworth]

Add to the above the fact that now hazel spars for thatching are imported , and increasing amounts of firewood are also being imported leaving woodlands unworked , except for the " conservationists " who seem happy to spend money for no economic return .

 

Met conservationist few years ago

She was getting £500 a night ! For watching otters on the river dee between Llangollen and Corwen

Not suprisingly she wasn't interested in proper work .....

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

All problems I unsuccessfully tried to address while I was contracting. And yes my tractors were horribly vandalised. Now I see tractor-loader-trailer combinations travelling to work sites each day from a secure place, they exceed the speed limit but this seems a small risk in comparison and the modern tractors are a dream to drive on the road compared with a 1970s County.

 

I could see the trend soon after I started contracting I give you a timeline, all open to correction and addition:

 

1870s Timber reaches its maximum value in real terms (some 60 times the current real value), it is the universal fuel, structural and utility resource. Small distributed local woodland resource can be worked by a couple of men and a horse, onward transport limited to a 2 tonne two horse cart means the harvesting cost of a single tree is competitive with that from a large clearfell. Sawmills in every town so transport distances short.

 

1900s Coal becomes cheap to transport on railways, coke from gasworks fuels steel output steel already dominates industry, Concrete from portland cement becomes competitive. Wood no longer dominant structural material for building or transport, mechanisation driven by wars increases production and manpower increasingly moves to industry. Scares about coal production being limited by supply of imported timber leads to massive subsidy for reafforestation, especially absorbing labour during the depression. Tarmacked road network begins to impinge on wildlife migration, ultimately leading to massive meta population loss in small woodlands.

 

1970s when I started work, a number of centralised industrial wood processors making use of the new small dimension softwood resource. The short-lived era a motor-manual chainsaw harvesting and agricultural tracor extraction has just begun. Maximum lorry payload now 20 tones ( artic gross at 28) and 6 wheelers with grabs with payload of 12 tonnes are just about economic. Local mills closing but still abundant so small blocks can still be harvested, increasing amounts of softwood thinning. Niche markets enable sorting to sell higher value things like psr, bars, turnery poles to markets up to 100 miles away.

 

Mid 1980s Win-blow provides a fillip for struggling sawmills but size of resource to be harvested triggers import of large numbers of scandinavian forwarder and harvesters. Lorry payloads increase to 29 tonnes so this becomes the minimum load worth harvesting. Landowners happy with small payments for thinning as small machines gently driven at appropriate times not disruptive to other woodland uses. Money is tax free.

 

Early 1990s GATT is the death-knell of small sawmills and even makes some older pulp mills uneconomic. All niche markets using wood for thinks like brush handles close because of competition from imports and substitution by plastics.

 

2000 on harvesters have driven down harvesting costs to make motor manual felling uncompetitive, any ethos of growing quality timber goes out the window with onset of cutter select thinning. Woodlands producing less than 1000 tonne coupes shut the gate. Machines have to work whatever the ground conditions to amortise capital cost. Need space for 5 artics a day to remove produce. Produce assortment reduce to sawlogs, bars and pulp.

 

FC reinvents itself as a conservation and recreation body (IMO once there was no perceived strategic need they should have been dissolved and work distributed to planners, NE and EA). Rise of the "trusts" employing only green wellybooted graduates who will not entertain the old woodlanders for work, The rise of the conservation volunteer and woodland arbwork and loss of the knowledge that most woodland species of flora and fauna depended on a traditional harvesting regime rather than cutting to waste.

 

Brilliant.

[blacknora]

All problems I unsuccessfully tried to address while I was contracting. And yes my tractors were horribly vandalised. Now I see tractor-loader-trailer combinations travelling to work sites each day from a secure place, they exceed the speed limit but this seems a small risk in comparison and the modern tractors are a dream to drive on the road compared with a 1970s County.

 

I could see the trend soon after I started contracting I give you a timeline, all open to correction and addition:

 

1870s Timber reaches its maximum value in real terms (some 60 times the current real value), it is the universal fuel, structural and utility resource. Small distributed local woodland resource can be worked by a couple of men and a horse, onward transport limited to a 2 tonne two horse cart means the harvesting cost of a single tree is competitive with that from a large clearfell. Sawmills in every town so transport distances short.

 

1900s Coal becomes cheap to transport on railways, coke from gasworks fuels steel output steel already dominates industry, Concrete from portland cement becomes competitive. Wood no longer dominant structural material for building or transport, mechanisation driven by wars increases production and manpower increasingly moves to industry. Scares about coal production being limited by supply of imported timber leads to massive subsidy for reafforestation, especially absorbing labour during the depression. Tarmacked road network begins to impinge on wildlife migration, ultimately leading to massive meta population loss in small woodlands.

 

1970s when I started work, a number of centralised industrial wood processors making use of the new small dimension softwood resource. The short-lived era a motor-manual chainsaw harvesting and agricultural tracor extraction has just begun. Maximum lorry payload now 20 tones ( artic gross at 28) and 6 wheelers with grabs with payload of 12 tonnes are just about economic. Local mills closing but still abundant so small blocks can still be harvested, increasing amounts of softwood thinning. Niche markets enable sorting to sell higher value things like psr, bars, turnery poles to markets up to 100 miles away.

 

Mid 1980s Win-blow provides a fillip for struggling sawmills but size of resource to be harvested triggers import of large numbers of scandinavian forwarder and harvesters. Lorry payloads increase to 29 tonnes so this becomes the minimum load worth harvesting. Landowners happy with small payments for thinning as small machines gently driven at appropriate times not disruptive to other woodland uses. Money is tax free.

 

Early 1990s GATT is the death-knell of small sawmills and even makes some older pulp mills uneconomic. All niche markets using wood for thinks like brush handles close because of competition from imports and substitution by plastics.

 

2000 on harvesters have driven down harvesting costs to make motor manual felling uncompetitive, any ethos of growing quality timber goes out the window with onset of cutter select thinning. Woodlands producing less than 1000 tonne coupes shut the gate. Machines have to work whatever the ground conditions to amortise capital cost. Need space for 5 artics a day to remove produce. Produce assortment reduce to sawlogs, bars and pulp.

 

FC reinvents itself as a conservation and recreation body (IMO once there was no perceived strategic need they should have been dissolved and work distributed to planners, NE and EA). Rise of the "trusts" employing only green wellybooted graduates who will not entertain the old woodlanders for work, The rise of the conservation volunteer and woodland arbwork and loss of the knowledge that most woodland species of flora and fauna depended on a traditional harvesting regime rather than cutting to waste.

 

 

thanks for this! we've gotten into forestry wanting to find a way how to work this situation, so far it seems to me that it is choice btw making money or doing things right. if you want to make living out of small woods in the end you got to go to greenwellied conservationists or similar for funding to subsidise it. the firewood prices are still too low whatever the people say.

 

as far as the technical side of things go i think we might go for the trailer and 4x4 option and only use it on tracks (i e not really offroading) - i am aware this will seriosly limit where we can go but i think we will simply have to be patient till we get another opportunity to invest and go and get that tractor.

 

this has been a lovely discussion btw - thaks all for contributing!

[blacknora]

We sell the American Logrite Arches, and have supplied a few of their big Fetching models for thi skind of work; Fetching Arch - LogRite Tools LLC

 

The Fetching arch has a big wide wheel base and good size tyres, will pick up a seriously big trunk or lots of smaller trunks at once. You then pull the whole lot out of the woods using a winch. They don't fall over sideways and safely stop and drop when you stop winching. A petrol PortableWinch works well with these because the anchor point can be moved quickly to avoid obstacles.

 

PortableWinch, Fetching Arch and rope makes for a very efficient, safe and capable setup at around £3.5k. I can send more details, or follow link in signature for more info.

 

we can borrow one of these things locally, it works but you can only transport very little at a time - doesn't really solve the labour efficiency problem!

[tz1_1zt]

we can borrow one of these things locally, it works but you can only transport very little at a time - doesn't really solve the labour efficiency problem!

Does the one locally have the choker chain adaptor? They take one very big log at a time using the tongs, but the choker chain attachment can gather up multiple logs at once. The space inside the arch for timber is pretty large, we have customers moving large amounts of timber in a day with this setup.

Couple of photos of the arch in use with the cable winch for forwarding behind a vehicle, choker chain achieves the same thing.

 

I see what you mean by the labour efficiency, but that has to be weighed up against the high cost of bigger toys. Man power or horsepower, neither come cheaply.