Oak before ash etc etc

[Riggerbear]

I'm sure many of you have heard of the saying 'oak before ash, we're in for a splash' meaning we are going going to have a dry summer and 'ash before oak, we're in for a soak' meaning the opposite.

Well this year more than any other year I've known, here in west wales the oak are far more ahead of the ash. The ash are only just thinking about coming out into leaf.

[Peasgood]

My theory on this is that the trees have no way of predicting future rainfall, all they can do is react to the weather we have already had.

In my experience (I am outdoors all day every day and my job depends entirely on the weather) the rainfall evens itself out over time. So if it has been particularly wet for a long period we are very likely to go into a prolonged dry spell, and vice versa.

 

So if anything can be deduced it is that a prolonged wet period can make Ash slow to come into leaf and Oak tends to be less affected. Dry periods can make Ash come into leaf earlier.

I have a sneaky feeling Oak isn't the one that varies much.

 

A lot of farmers all over the country are saying they are short of rain. Chucked it down all day here!

 

Ash are late but I wouldn't say I've not known it before.

[Riggerbear]

Good points, I'm not sure I've ever known such a difference between leaf emergence on oak and ash in 22 years of working in the tree industry. Just out of interest, my beech hedge come into leaf 2 weeks earlier than I ever known this year.

[coppiceer]

My Ash came into leaf 2-3 weeks ahead of the Oaks (Leics.). It seems to be different around the country every year.

[skyhuck]

Oak way ahead of the Ash here, much more so than I've ever seen.

[Peasgood]

An old boy told me that if the Oak hangs onto it's leaves well into autumn we are in for a bad one. Worst winter I have ever known did indeed follow the oaks hanging onto their leaves until nearly Christmas.

 

Unless you actually record the dates every year I really don't think you will remember properly. It might be that the Oak is pretty much the same date every year and it is the Ash that changes.

 

My apples break buds almost exactly the same date every year (14th March) I know this because the first scab spray has to go on then and spray records show this. Last year it was a full month later! This year back to the 14th March.

[skyhuck]

An old boy told me that if the Oak hangs onto it's leaves well into autumn we are in for a bad one. Worst winter I have ever known did indeed follow the oaks hanging onto their leaves until nearly Christmas.

 

Unless you actually record the dates every year I really don't think you will remember properly. It might be that the Oak is pretty much the same date every year and it is the Ash that changes.

 

My apples break buds almost exactly the same date every year (14th March) I know this because the first scab spray has to go on then and spray records show this. Last year it was a full month later! This year back to the 14th March.

 

As its a comparison between the two, i.e. which comes into leaf first, it matters not when they come into leaf, just which is first.

[Peasgood]

So how much further apart than usual are they?

[slack ma girdle]

Oak buds burst when daylight hours reach a certain point, Ash buds burst at a certain temperature. Generally the lenght of daylight needed for the oak burst is reached before the air temp that triggers ash burst.

[skyhuck]

IME most years they open pretty much together, this year is exceptional IMO.