Swelling on Oak

[Dean O]

I'd go for fibre buckling

can you picus or resistograph it?

[treeseer]

Originally Posted by jomoco View Post

Looks like an old girdling wound to my eye.

 

I suspect a deeply buried cable's in there.

 

When I run across that type of wound, I take a chisel and orientate it vertically, then pound it in deep enough to sever whatever's girdling the trunk. I do this three times in 120 degree increments around the wound.

 

Something is buried in that trunk and girdling it in my opinion."

 

Yes that line on the left does indicate girdling.

 

Very nice protocol on severance of girdling object.

 

So after banging the chisel, in an assessment may be made as to the thickness of the residual wall?

Invasion only seems warranted if there is some sign of weakness imo. Or if the owner is not wanting reduction of that leader that goes to the right at a right angle.

 

That crook is a more troubling condition and reeason for work than the bulge imo, and they may well be related; fibre buckling as mentioned.

 

"...the wound appeared to be callousing evenly but it was difficult to see with all the stress growth and the awkward viewing angle.

 

Any idea (anyone) what causes this growth?"

 

Could be 'stress' sorry couldn't resist...

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Originally Posted by jomoco View Post

Looks like an old girdling wound to my eye.

 

I suspect a deeply buried cable's in there.

 

When I run across that type of wound, I take a chisel and orientate it vertically, then pound it in deep enough to sever whatever's girdling the trunk. I do this three times in 120 degree increments around the wound.

 

Something is buried in that trunk and girdling it in my opinion."

 

Yes that line on the left does indicate girdling.

 

Very nice protocol on severance of girdling object.

 

Invasion only seems warranted if there is some sign of weakness imo. Or if the owner is not wanting reduction of that leader that goes to the right at a right angle.

 

That crook is a more troubling condition and reeason for work than the bulge imo, and they may well be related; fibre buckling as mentioned.

 

"...the wound appeared to be callousing evenly but it was difficult to see with all the stress growth and the awkward viewing angle.

 

Any idea (anyone) what causes this growth?"

 

Could be 'stress' sorry couldn't resist...

 

"If answer appears overly complex (wordy) its probably wrong"- Einstein

 

and if I caught you driving a chisel through this tree I would either kick your ladder out or tie your line to the base of the tree and leave you to ponder:lol:

 

This isnt complex at all, what was at some stage a potentially two stem tree had one of the (lesser of the two) leads or first order limbs removed. this created a large wound, and along came Laetiporus sulphureus/Fistulina hepatica or a similar brown rot, (oaks have a diverse range of brown heart rotters associated with them)

 

While the brown rot fungi colonised the aerated volume (Dysfunctional) the other rival first order limb/stem became Alpha and grew on unrestricted.

 

At some stage (maybe its taken 30-40 years) the T/r ratio was reached by the brown rotter causing shrinkage in the heartwood and facilitating a minor T/r at or close to the sapwood area. Meaning that there may or may not be and obvious cavity, simply shrinkage in the colonised heartwood regions is sufficient to act as a cavitation, the lesser or greater degree of soft filling or undecayed materials effecting the mechanics of the tubular structures dynamics.

 

In my personal experience this is a scenario that is as common as the tree species, the English Oaks Q. petrea and robur are very dominantly colonised by the two aforementioned fungi, both specialists in tannin/polyphenolic rich oak heartwood.

 

If I HAD to quantify this I would begin with an incremental boring on the tension side (notch stresses are less prone to fail on tension than compressions) and find out the residual wall thickness and the extent of, type of decay and potential species identification via mycelial felts or streaks being present in the medullary rays (L. sulphureus) or a less orange more dark brown powdery nature (F. hepatica) and progress from the information gained in doing so.

 

If Laetiporus was found to be in residence then it would be most prudent to progress to some kind of pruning to alleviate the issues, as Laetiporus is the no one culpit in stem failures of mature oaks

[jomoco]

Cool Tony,

 

Just curious though, if there was a buried wire rope in that trunk girdling that oak?

 

How you would deal with it?

 

The least invasive means of finding out if there's a girdling wire rope in there is still a metal detector.

 

Hope I'm wrong for the tree's sake.

 

jomoco

[sloth]

"If answer appears overly complex (wordy) its probably wrong"- Einstein

 

and if I caught you driving a chisel through this tree I would either kick your ladder out or tie your line to the base of the tree and leave you to ponder:lol:

 

This isnt complex at all, what was at some stage a potentially two stem tree had one of the (lesser of the two) leads or first order limbs removed. this created a large wound, and along came Laetiporus sulphureus/Fistulina hepatica or a similar brown rot, (oaks have a diverse range of brown heart rotters associated with them)

 

While the brown rot fungi colonised the aerated volume (Dysfunctional) the other rival first order limb/stem became Alpha and grew on unrestricted.

 

At some stage (maybe its taken 30-40 years) the T/r ratio was reached by the brown rotter causing shrinkage in the heartwood and facilitating a minor T/r at or close to the sapwood area. Meaning that there may or may not be and obvious cavity, simply shrinkage in the colonised heartwood regions is sufficient to act as a cavitation, the lesser or greater degree of soft filling or undecayed materials effecting the mechanics of the tubular structures dynamics.

 

In my personal experience this is a scenario that is as common as the tree species, the English Oaks Q. petrea and robur are very dominantly colonised by the two aforementioned fungi, both specialists in tannin/polyphenolic rich oak heartwood.

 

If I HAD to quantify this I would begin with an incremental boring on the tension side (notch stresses are less prone to fail on tension than compressions) and find out the residual wall thickness and the extent of, type of decay and potential species identification via mycelial felts or streaks being present in the medullary rays (L. sulphureus) or a less orange more dark brown powdery nature (F. hepatica) and progress from the information gained in doing so.

 

If Laetiporus was found to be in residence then it would be most prudent to progress to some kind of pruning to alleviate the issues, as Laetiporus is the no one culpit in stem failures of mature oaks

 

A quality post, summed up well. Good shout on coring the tension rather than compression side- your own idea or picked up elsewhere? My thoughts are perhaps a resi drill either side would be more representative of overall tr ratio, and leave a much smaller hole than a core. However I (and I suspect you too) would be loathe to drill/core in the first place after seeing this VERY common body language on a native oak; if targets were a concern a little tickle of reduction would most likely be sufficient and a similar price to testing. Where have you been Tony? The lunatics are taking over the asylum!

[Paul Barton]

"If answer appears overly complex (wordy) its probably wrong"- Einstein

 

and if I caught you driving a chisel through this tree I would either kick your ladder out or tie your line to the base of the tree and leave you to ponder:lol:

 

This isnt complex at all, what was at some stage a potentially two stem tree had one of the (lesser of the two) leads or first order limbs removed. this created a large wound, and along came Laetiporus sulphureus/Fistulina hepatica or a similar brown rot, (oaks have a diverse range of brown heart rotters associated with them)

 

While the brown rot fungi colonised the aerated volume (Dysfunctional) the other rival first order limb/stem became Alpha and grew on unrestricted.

 

At some stage (maybe its taken 30-40 years) the T/r ratio was reached by the brown rotter causing shrinkage in the heartwood and facilitating a minor T/r at or close to the sapwood area. Meaning that there may or may not be and obvious cavity, simply shrinkage in the colonised heartwood regions is sufficient to act as a cavitation, the lesser or greater degree of soft filling or undecayed materials effecting the mechanics of the tubular structures dynamics.

 

In my personal experience this is a scenario that is as common as the tree species, the English Oaks Q. petrea and robur are very dominantly colonised by the two aforementioned fungi, both specialists in tannin/polyphenolic rich oak heartwood.

 

If I HAD to quantify this I would begin with an incremental boring on the tension side (notch stresses are less prone to fail on tension than compressions) and find out the residual wall thickness and the extent of, type of decay and potential species identification via mycelial felts or streaks being present in the medullary rays (L. sulphureus) or a less orange more dark brown powdery nature (F. hepatica) and progress from the information gained in doing so.

 

If Laetiporus was found to be in residence then it would be most prudent to progress to some kind of pruning to alleviate the issues, as Laetiporus is the no one culpit in stem failures of mature oaks

 

"If answer appears overly complex (wordy) its probably wrong"- Einstein

 

...you may well be right Tony I just couldn't resist.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

A quality post, summed up well. Good shout on coring the tension rather than compression side- your own idea or picked up elsewhere? My thoughts are perhaps a resi drill either side would be more representative of overall tr ratio, and leave a much smaller hole than a core. However I (and I suspect you too) would be loathe to drill/core in the first place after seeing this VERY common body language on a native oak; if targets were a concern a little tickle of reduction would most likely be sufficient and a similar price to testing. Where have you been Tony? The lunatics are taking over the asylum!

 

I dont stick my oar in too often, wouldnt want to mislead anyone with my orrent of utter BS and psuedo science:lol:

[treeseer]

Totally agree with you Tony; I think we're on the same page. I'm with sloth re the lack of need for invasion. So untwist them undies ok?

 

Jon (jomoco) i carry a big magnet on a stick, for finding survey irons and metal in trees. Not sophisticated, but it finds iron.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Totally agree with you Tony; I think we're on the same page. I'm with sloth re the lack of need for invasion. So untwist them undies ok?

 

Jon (jomoco) i carry a big magnet on a stick, for finding survey irons and metal in trees. Not sophisticated, but it finds iron.

 

after the last run in with Mr Vine I've made a resolution to never twist or rather let others twist my knickers or melon:biggrin:

 

Life is just too short, and getting your knickers in a twist just gives energy to vampires and trolls and haters

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi all,

 

Some of the best examples I've seen of fibre buckling on Oak are at Merrist Wood College. There's one, of two / twin-stemmed, on the green near the accommodation blocks where it looks like it's swallowed a tyre...amazing!

 

Tony, THANK YOU (again), I am familiar with fibre buckling on Oak but not the association with brown rot / residual wall thickness, which, on reflection, is common place and probably obvious

 

Keep up the good work, and contributions everyone

 

Cheers..

Paul