Show us your Arb Diggers please.

[monkeybusiness]

I bet it’s because it’s a really low volume machine specific part outsourced (and because of the low volume subsequently supplied at a similar price to JCB as something you could buy as a customer direct from CabCare or whoever).

JCB will then need to put their margin on it, potentially stock them somewhere for forward distribution, get them to a relevant dealer etc etc. 

I’m not trying to justify it, it’s bonkers money, but I can sort of see how relatively specialist parts like that quickly become expensive. 

I’d imagine you saw the guarding on the 8 tonne Kobelco on the Molson stand at the APF? I’m not sure who supplied that but it was very well thought out IMO, with the bars angled to minimise line-of-site obstruction. Might be worth investigating it’s source? 

[arbwork]

Eddie  good to see you back after the break! hope you had a good one, thank goodness ours was included in the latest build to include rotation and tank piping, tbc.

[LGP Eddie]

4 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

I bet it’s because it’s a really low volume machine specific part outsourced (and because of the low volume subsequently supplied at a similar price to JCB as something you could buy as a customer direct from CabCare or whoever).

JCB will then need to put their margin on it, potentially stock them somewhere for forward distribution, get them to a relevant dealer etc etc. 

I’m not trying to justify it, it’s bonkers money, but I can sort of see how relatively specialist parts like that quickly become expensive. 

I’d imagine you saw the guarding on the 8 tonne Kobelco on the Molson stand at the APF? I’m not sure who supplied that but it was very well thought out IMO, with the bars angled to minimise line-of-site obstruction. Might be worth investigating it’s source? 

Yes absolutely aware of the fact it’s not a Volume selling item etc, but that is really coming in at machined out of solid unobtainium prices.

I’d like to see JCB step up and offer them at realistic prices going forward simply on having a responsibility to ensure guys can get hold of genuine Factory design/tested safety items without profiteering.

 

The real test will be to order a JS145, leave the guarding off the quote and then call back at the last to have it added on?

Anyone think it’s going to add over 6.5k to the deal then?

 

The item on the Kobelco at the APF is the Factory Kobelco item I wanted on my Kobelco SK270 and Molson failed to supply it.

They utilised a setup they have manufactured for them, which cost them dear as it ended up being shipped back to be put right as it simply restricted the view too much, the brackets were shite and the the general fit not much better.

 

The genuine item is tested and has a neat opening system with gas struts.

They’ve gone onto fitting them now, they were installed on a 140 and 8 tonner when I was in the workshop last.

 

 

Eddie.

[monkeybusiness]

It’s a very well thought out guard on that Kobelco - makes my cabcare (which is spot on to be fair) look rather second best! 

Cabcare were great when I ordered from them to their credit - I wanted the top section of the screen guard easily removed for when not ‘treeing’ and they adapted their design so that it’s a 1 man lift-off with 4 bolts (previously the whole front piece needed to come away as the bottom section won’t self-support, which is a much bigger job). No extra cost, still certified, happy to help sir! Great company. 

[LGP Eddie]

I don’t overly buy into being certified if properly designed or constructed by a known quantity in the Industry.

 

The whole Excavators in Tree Works is due a massive shake up, but anyone who’s done a bit knows that properly designed and installed guards from experienced UK manufacturers for this specific work are far superior to many of the actual factory items that may have other applications in mind.

 

Absolutely no use having 100mm spacing between bars or bars of 2.0mm plate!

 

My Kubota was done by Jcc Group and was designed for the job.

 

You’d not expect to see certified on a nicely guarded up Valtra, most are done from experience with skilled guys building a real world setup.

 

Some form of Inspection/tag is required where guys can have setups built by suitably qualified/experienced guys with the correct welding qualifications, steel codes etc, plus relevant industry experience, then inspected after.

 

A basic set of guidelines could be provided to such installers, or simply an approved installer scheme?

 

Cabcare are the off the shelf guys out there, but they don’t do a huge range and don’t necessarily cater for tree work as a first priority.

 

They actually do one for the JS145, looks tidy, but the test is always how much vision to you lose on the front/top join.

Done properly you can keep this to an absolute minimum.

 

 

Eddie.

[LGP Eddie]

52 minutes ago, arbwork said:

Eddie  good to see you back after the break! hope you had a good one, thank goodness ours was included in the latest build to include rotation and tank piping, tbc.

Still on break Thanks. Just over the hill now and looking forward to getting back at it.

You did well to ensure pipework was fitted, that gets expensive real quick!?

 

 

Eddie.

[monkeybusiness]

2 hours ago, LGP Eddie said:

 

Cabcare are the off the shelf guys out there, but they don’t do a huge range and don’t necessarily cater for tree work as a first priority.

 

This is true, but for the price they offer something very well made and recognised that shouldn’t cause any HSE issues in the event of something disastrous happening...

I had my fabricator mate look at making me something and whilst you will never really beat something designed and built bespoke for a particular person’s application it wasn’t worth messing with this time when Cabcare’s offering is as good as it is for the price it is. 

Talking to them at the APF I got the impression that they are in discussion with the FC with regards a benchmark for this type of excavator guarding. They are also apparently open to suggestions from operators about industry specific improvements to their guards.

If you don’t already know him, give Adrian Grew from there a ring and bounce some ideas off him - he’s a very decent guy who knows his onions. 

[LGP Eddie]

1 hour ago, monkeybusiness said:

This is true, but for the price they offer something very well made and recognised that shouldn’t cause any HSE issues in the event of something disastrous happening...

I had my fabricator mate look at making me something and whilst you will never really beat something designed and built bespoke for a particular person’s application it wasn’t worth messing with this time when Cabcare’s offering is as good as it is for the price it is. 

Talking to them at the APF I got the impression that they are in discussion with the FC with regards a benchmark for this type of excavator guarding. They are also apparently open to suggestions from operators about industry specific improvements to their guards.

If you don’t already know him, give Adrian Grew from there a ring and bounce some ideas off him - he’s a very decent guy who knows his onions. 

I’d rather the Factory item at a reasonable premium, but suspect I’ll be ordering the Cabcare item next week.

 

Machine setups have gone way ahead in an industry that isn’t now Arb or Forestry. 

Mechanised De-Vegetation is probably more accurate in its description and I predict a raft of catching up being done in terms of Operator Training/Certification and regulation of machine setups.

The FC can stick to Forestry and the AA to Arb, something is needed real fast to represent guys with kit, before it gets picked up as a cash cow for us all to have to go around another ill thought out money spinner yet again!

 

 

Eddie.

[monkeybusiness]

39 minutes ago, LGP Eddie said:

I’d rather the Factory item at a reasonable premium, but suspect I’ll be ordering the Cabcare item next week.

 

Machine setups have gone way ahead in an industry that isn’t now Arb or Forestry. 

Mechanised De-Vegetation is probably more accurate in its description and I predict a raft of catching up being done in terms of Operator Training/Certification and regulation of machine setups.

The FC can stick to Forestry and the AA to Arb, something is needed real fast to represent guys with kit, before it gets picked up as a cash cow for us all to have to go around another ill thought out money spinner yet again!

 

 

Eddie.

How do they prove competence / set benchmarks for safety etc in Scandinavia? Or are they a bit more pragmatic about it and don’t subsequently answer to industry governing bodies in the same way as we do here? 

You could run the risk of introducing a whole new raft of requirements to work on top of the not-fit-for-purpose load of crap that currently exists - I’d be more inclined to suggest tying in with (and trying to influence) a big player such as the FC that is a widely known body whatever your background, and subsequently carries weight (in terms of ‘trees are trees’ to the layman/builder/civil engineer etc etc).

Mechanised deveg is not in any way a new idea, and the FC (for all of their faults) have more experience than anyone else in the U.K. in putting soft, breakable human beings inside big strong machines to keep them safe and make them more productive in a dangerous environment. 

The AA and the NPTC aren’t going to help here - IMO they’ve done nothing to get our industry specific accreditation recognised by the CSCS mafia (they handed it off to BALI, who introduced the total bullshit ROLO tax) - that’s the main problem I see you facing, anything more task specific won’t be recognised in its own right. 

It’ll all come to a head when someone has an accident with a machine, and the task specific tickets are looked into (and found not to exist). I’d be hedging my bets with the FC/FMOC route personally, and think that the owner operators with the biggest investments and subsequently the most to lose if/when the shit eventually hits the fan are best placed to try and steer it from the beginning. But that’s just my view.

[LGP Eddie]

It’s all above my pay grade, I’ll stick to pulling the levers and trying to put decent kit together.

It seems wherever you drop off the lowloader these days someone wants another piece of paper or something else fitting to the machine, but nobody wants to pay for it.

As for the jokers that come and look over the kit or how you’re operating, you can’t make up the shit they come out with.

Bloke came to test me on the Liebherr before I could use it on a job, I’d the cab up when he landed and I had to drop it down, big shear under the Engcon setup hanging off the end.

He said, “they tell me this is yours?” yes I replied, “they’ve sent me to test you on it, but f@@k me you’d never get me up there in that!” “Can you sign here I’ll fill the rest in and you can crack on” Absolutely unreal.

 

 

Eddie.