Chainsaw update training to become mandatory for all operatives from Oct 2013

[treequip]

I agree there are good and bad ......but that the case most places

 

 

However I would add very few bad fallers stay in work as no one will touch them

 

And this is of course your opinion of one mans work, it could be you your opinion is wrong, it could also be that the man you saw wasn't up to scratch, either way its hardly going to condemn the system is it?

[Craobh]

You clearly know nothing of this

 

The government earns nothing from NPTC.

 

The part of the government that is behind this is the Health and Safety Executive (think OSHA) who also don't get a penny from it but are mandated to protect people.

 

I just said that to him lol but from where he looks on it it does look like a bend over gig......we get that crap all the time stateside and it hard to not think that way

[easy-lift guy]

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the government's revenue.

 

 

There are all sorts of problems with the way we train chainsaw use in this country and refresher training is not going to sort them. As an idea I think it has some merit points, but it is not the be all and end all, you can be refreshed and still be a dangerous operator. Those who bemoan the safety record should take a long hard look at their procurement procedures and question why they are based either entirely, or largely biased towards price. Pay peanuts - get monkeys, simples. If you want a highly skilled operator you might have to pay for one, oh and I agree with Craobh, it will always be dangerous as long as you have a man (or woman, I've been told off for that before), a saw and a big lump of wood. This will not change, no matter what refresher we do, but skilled operators should be able to minimise the danger.

 

Unless the courses and all the administration needed to make this happen is FREE, it has everything to do with additional spending and possible waste of funds. IMHO the UK is the most heavily regulated and taxed country in the Western world, although some folks in power over here can't seem to tax enough, thats another thread:sneaky2:. Having additional regulation and over lapping more rules and regs over and over is pretty much insane, and use less to boot!

easy-lift guy

[Craobh]

Unless the courses and all the administration needed to make this happen is FREE, it has everything to do with additional spending and possible waste of funds. IMHO the UK is the most heavily regulated and taxed country in the Western world, although some folks in power over here can't seem to tax enough, thats another thread:sneaky2:. Having additional regulation and over lapping more rules and regs over and over is pretty much insane, and use less to boot!

easy-lift guy

 

Bro I get ya trust me I do and the regs over here and tax are nuts .....however that not all down to the UK some comes from those persons in those counries east of here lol

[County 764]

FISA are looking to impose refresher training for anyone using saws on there day-to-day working career. Anybody working for the Forestry Commission will need to be a member and retrained at least every 5 years. its what happens next? compulsory re training for climbers, use of wood chippers FMOC's etc. etc..

[Marc Lewis]

Excellent, I love putting my hand in my pocket for refresher courses (to remind me what I do every day) and then taking time off to do them!

[easy-lift guy]

You clearly know nothing of this

 

The government earns nothing from NPTC.

 

The part of the government that is behind this is the Health and Safety Executive (think OSHA) who also don't get a penny from it but are mandated to protect people.

 

I believe H&S are financed by the tax payers in the UK just like over here with OSHA in the US. If you follow the money you may discover that funding for all government function comes from taxes collected or levied against citizens or businesses. Now if the government provided at no charge to the public this training to "protect people", I could except your opinion. Seems like H&S is forcing citizens to comply or else, protect people or another layer of government

control?. I can still remember when most folks could and would look out for them selfs. Those were the days:thumbup1:

easy-lift guy

[treequip]

I believe H&S are financed by the tax payers in the UK just like over here with OSHA in the US. If you follow the money you may discover that funding for all government function comes from taxes collected or levied against citizens or businesses. Now if the government provided at no charge to the public this training to "protect people", I could except your opinion. Seems like H&S is forcing citizens to comply or else, protect people or another layer of government

control?. I can still remember when most folks could and would look out for them selfs. Those were the days:thumbup1:

easy-lift guy

 

What kind of change the subject twaddle is that?

 

Of course the HSE is funded by government and thus by taxes but the HSE already exists, if this move takes HSE man hours its costing the government and it most certainly isn't going to

Increasing the governments revenue stream.

easy-lift guy

The government wont earn a penny from this, the HSE wont earn a penny from this, its a cost item.

 

Now you mention the government providing this for free, interesting that, because if you took a moment to study this you would see that they are doing as close to that as they can.

 

The HSE have said to the industry "regulate yourself or we will", the HSE can only regulate with primary legislation and an enforcement team, drafting a bill and getting it through parliament is monumentally expensive and maintaining an enforcement team is worse.

 

The way they are doing this avoids that expense and so comes at a minimum cost to the public and at the same time supports the market economy that's so sacred to you.

 

So its not a "layer of government control" its industry self regulation in an effort to stop people getting maimed and killed. There is good history of that being successful in the UK.

 

The HSE did exactly this to the gas industry in the UK because they were killing people. Now gas installers have to be licenced, by a self regulatory body. Search this archive for the posts where UK arborist have said that a similar scheme would be a good thing to regulate the rouges in our industry, then consider that this could be the first step on a road that.

 

I to can remember when people would look after themselves and I an remember a time when employers could send any old clown out with a chainsaw and no idea.

 

So how's Obamas second term going, I know nowt about US politics but I recon he is doing sterling work in all sectors..........

[easy-lift guy]

What kind of change the subject twaddle is that?

 

Of course the HSE is funded by government and thus by taxes but the HSE already exists, if this move takes HSE man hours its costing the government and it most certainly isn't going to

The government wont earn a penny from this, the HSE wont earn a penny from this, its a cost item.

 

Now you mention the government providing this for free, interesting that, because if you took a moment to study this you would see that they are doing as close to that as they can.

 

The HSE have said to the industry "regulate yourself or we will", the HSE can only regulate with primary legislation and an enforcement team, drafting a bill and getting it through parliament is monumentally expensive and maintaining an enforcement team is worse.

 

The way they are doing this avoids that expense and so comes at a minimum cost to the public and at the same time supports the market economy that's so sacred to you.

 

So its not a "layer of government control" its industry self regulation in an effort to stop people getting maimed and killed. There is good history of that being successful in the UK.

 

The HSE did exactly this to the gas industry in the UK because they were killing people. Now gas installers have to be licenced, by a self regulatory body. Search this archive for the posts where UK arborist have said that a similar scheme would be a good thing to regulate the rouges in our industry, then consider that this could be the first step on a road that.

 

I to can remember when people would look after themselves and I an remember a time when employers could send any old clown out with a chainsaw and no idea.

 

So how's Obamas second term going, I know nowt about US politics but I recon he is doing sterling work in all sectors..........

 

More government ='s more expense, which in turn equals less freedom and more tyranny. It is a slow and painful process to see this in other country's much less my own. Since I do not believe it is the responsibility of any government much less our Two mutual governments to baby sit and coddle from cradle to grave, I believe I can understand where you come from. I suspect your suggestion about regulating certain rogues in the Arb industry may be well intended,however with selective enforcement practices from the Police not being able or willing to become involved leads me to believe it would be all for not.

easy-lift guy

[treequip]

More government ='s more expense, which in turn equals less freedom and more tyranny. It is a slow and painful process to see this in other country's much less my own. Since I do not believe it is the responsibility of any government much less our Two mutual governments to baby sit and coddle from cradle to grave, I believe I can understand where you come from. I suspect your suggestion about regulating certain rogues in the Arb industry may be well intended,however with selective enforcement practices from the Police not being able or willing to become involved leads me to believe it would be all for not.

easy-lift guy

 

How is it more government? Its anything but more government. It is the HSE saying regulate this yourselves or there will have to be more government.

 

What you believe about any government isn't relevant, you certainly seem to have a bee in your bonnet about your government or at least the current administration and your sphincter

 

You assertion of tyranny is ridiculous, its an elected government, if you don't like it vote them out, you can do that, its only tyranny if you don't have representation.

 

What is relevant is that under UK law the HSE has a DUTY to act if workers are getting injured or killed, they have identified forestry as a place where that happens and are fulfilling that duty.

 

Would you be happier if it were a free for all and never mind if little Billy's dad gets a trip to the ER and a permanent disability or comes home in a box?