Woodchipper Accident = HSE Prosecution

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Apologies if this has been posted previously:

 

Tree firm fined after teenage worker loses toes on wood chipper

 

A horrific accident and wholly preventable.

 

Maybe take this opportunity to reveiw your risk assessment AND implemenet it...in full, i.e. adequate supervision of 'young' operatives.

 

Cheers all n 'best wishes' if the poor lad's out there.

 

Paul

[David Humphries]

It has been Paul, but should be kept live & bumped to get the message across

 

 

 

 

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[gensetsteve]

20 pages of waffle or a bottom safety bar would not have prevented that accident. If you let idiots loose with machinery they will cut body parts off. If he did not cut his toes off that week he would have cut his head off a week later. Are there really people stupid enough to put their foot in hydraulic wood chipper.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

20 pages of waffle or a bottom safety bar would not have prevented that accident. If you let idiots loose with machinery they will cut body parts off. If he did not cut his toes off that week he would have cut his head off a week later. Are there really people stupid enough to put their foot in hydraulic wood chipper.

 

A "fair comment" which many will acknowledge and agree with...BUT 'idiots', and/or very naive young people (I know being the Father of one), do exist AND potentially it's your insurance they'll be claiming on after you've been prosecuted by HSE of course. PLUS of course there are occasions when those 'idiots' observe 'idiotic' practice by more expereinced staff.

 

Madness I know but you need to make sure you've got things sorted beforehand so, firstly, hopefully the acccident never happens, and secondly, your "proverbial" is covered if it does.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[HCR]

20 pages of waffle or a bottom safety bar would not have prevented that accident. If you let idiots loose with machinery they will cut body parts off. If he did not cut his toes off that week he would have cut his head off a week later. Are there really people stupid enough to put their foot in hydraulic wood chipper.

 

If that 20 pages of waffle identified the need for inexperienced workers (or idiots) to operate under supervision and was properly implemented, the accident almost certainly would have been prevented.

[likeitorlumpit]

A "fair comment" which many will acknowledge and agree with...BUT 'idiots', and/or very naive young people (I know being the Father of one), do exist AND potentially it's your insurance they'll be claiming on after you've been prosecuted by HSE of course. PLUS of course there are occasions when those 'idiots' observe 'idiotic' practice by more expereinced staff.

 

Madness I know but you need to make sure you've got things sorted beforehand so, firstly, hopefully the acccident never happens, and secondly, your "proverbial" is covered if it does.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

Got to ask 'How can you be covered in cases such as this'

If the company had done the correct thing then this wouldn't have happened so can they really expect their insurance to not chase them after of course dealing with the inevitable claim.

Would not the risk assessment have picked up the defective chipper.

Would it have picked up an untrained employee. No steelies etc etc.

I expect this firm to be finished by this.

Or am I being unduly cynical about insurance companies. Or unduly harsh on the company

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Got to ask 'How can you be covered in cases such as this'

If the company had done the correct thing then this wouldn't have happened so can they really expect their insurance to not chase them after of course dealing with the inevitable claim.

Would not the risk assessment have picked up the defective chipper.

Would it have picked up an untrained employee. No steelies etc etc.

I expect this firm to be finished by this.

Or am I being unduly cynical about insurance companies. Or unduly harsh on the company

 

Not at all, the company is responsible in the first instance of course and provided that had acted 'reasonably and proportionally' to avoid the accident then they would be covered from 'legal' / prosecution perspective, I would hope, but the insurance would still apply.

 

Clearly, in this instance, the company knew of teh defective chipper and hence it shouldn't have been used BUT in so doing, as is often the case, they should have ensured extra safegaurds were in place. Also have identified a 'young / naive' person was operating it so needed close, and effective, supervision.

 

There is 'another', often quite profound and long term, effect here on the business owner who often feels morally repsonsible even when they are 'in the clear', so to speak (obviously, not that that's the case here.)

[likeitorlumpit]

Not at all, the company is responsible in the first instance of course and provided that had acted 'reasonably and proportionally' to avoid the accident then they would be covered from 'legal' / prosecution perspective, I would hope, but the insurance would still apply.

 

Clearly, in this instance, the company knew of teh defective chipper and hence it shouldn't have been used BUT in so doing, as is often the case, they should have ensured extra safegaurds were in place. Also have identified a 'young / naive' person was operating it so needed close, and effective, supervision.

 

There is 'another', often quite profound and long term, effect here on the business owner who often feels morally repsonsible even when they are 'in the clear', so to speak (obviously, not that that's the case here.)

 

There is that.

I'm just constantly concerned that we do what we have to do and I know sometimes corners are cut/ risks are taken. This is the real world after all. I don't think many people realise that insurance companies whilst having to pay out in all cases of employee liability insurance will sometimes prosecute the firm involved. Do I mean prosecute or counter sue. Whatever.

It could be the end of your business just to save a bit of time/cost.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I don't think many people realise that insurance companies whilst having to pay out in all cases of employee liability insurance will sometimes prosecute the firm involved. Do I mean prosecute or counter sue. Whatever.

It could be the end of your business just to save a bit of time/cost.

 

Hi there,

 

As always I stand to be corrected / 'updated' but I'm not aware of any insurance companies seeking to recover monies (I don't think they can 'prosecute' as such) from policy holders in situations like this. Indeed, I'm aware of two recent incidents where the policy holder instructed the insurance companies not to pay out as the 'employee' was at fault but they did so as the cost of compensation was less that the risk of going to court, losing, and then paying with court / legal costs...this really grinded on the employer who then felt at fault.

 

It's basically a financial consideration for them, which is the cheaper option. To add 'insult to injury' (forgive the poor choice of words) the following year their premiums increased because of the pay outs...MADNESS!!!

 

Fundamentally tho I do share your sentiments and often we don't see the 'seemingly' obvious until an incident / accident happens ("hind-sight")...and then we have to deal with the aftermath.

 

Take care out there, and of each other!

Paul

[Warners]

A "fair comment" which many will acknowledge and agree with...BUT 'idiots', and/or very naive young people (I know being the Father of one), do exist AND potentially it's your insurance they'll be claiming on after you've been prosecuted by HSE of course. PLUS of course there are occasions when those 'idiots' observe 'idiotic' practice by more expereinced staff.

 

Madness I know but you need to make sure you've got things sorted beforehand so, firstly, hopefully the acccident never happens, and secondly, your "proverbial" is covered if it does.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

As an employer make sure the machine is working as it should and all safety cut outs work or are not bypassed and make sure that anyone with permission to use the machine has had official training. At least that way if the employee does something like this the company is covered since they can show due care. On another note the HSE assume that everyone is incompetent, they have to.