Trees on unregistered land

[renewablejohn]

I have unregistered land which I look after but at least I can prove that in the past it belonged to the farm even though land registry will not register it as such as there is a break in ownership trail that I cannot prove. In your case the client would need to prove he has been managing the unregistered land. ie maintaining boundary fences, working the land etc etc. Obviously this is not the case which is why the trees are in the state the in. Basically I would not touch it with a barge pole.

[richsafc]

I have unregistered land which I look after but at least I can prove that in the past it belonged to the farm even though land registry will not register it as such as there is a break in ownership trail that I cannot prove. In your case the client would need to prove he has been managing the unregistered land. ie maintaining boundary fences, working the land etc etc. Obviously this is not the case which is why the trees are in the state the in. Basically I would not touch it with a barge pole.

 

The client has just bought the adjoining in which is why the trees are in an unruly state. And the land in question is a back lane which has a right of way through it, so I believe this to be why nobody has ever claimed it as it would be a legal nightmare for them to procure it without some argument from someone. I'm still very uneasy about undertaking the work as this just looks like a legal disaster waiting to happen!

 

A further question if anyone can help, if they council are wanting to put TPO's on the trees who are they going to serve the TPO's to if there is no registered owner of the land? My client has done a very detailed search and there is no private owner so I suppose its either Crown land or common land, can they serve TPO's on this type of land?

[HCR]

It won't be common land - commons are owned by someone and registered on the commons register as commons.

 

It's a frequent misconception that common land is land that is 'owned by the people' or some such thing. A clearly defined set of people (the commoners) has certain benefits/rights, such as grazing, pannage, turbary etc but unless you are a defined commoner it doesn't mean much.

 

Urban commons have had public access for quite a while and accesss to rural commons was granted under the CRoW Act. That's only for basic access though, not to cut trees down or anything else along those lines.

 

There's no problem serving a TPO on land that's owner cannot be traced - the LPA will be aware of the process for this. Not wishing to invoke this process might be why they don't want to serve a TPO though...

 

Your client has to make all reasonable efforts to trace the title holder. He can manage it as his own while he is doing this, but of course he does it at risk. After 12 years he can then apply to register it in his name, providing no one shows up with a title deed in the mean time.

[Amelanchier]

A further question if anyone can help, if they council are wanting to put TPO's on the trees who are they going to serve the TPO's to if there is no registered owner of the land? My client has done a very detailed search and there is no private owner so I suppose its either Crown land or common land, can they serve TPO's on this type of land?

 

Often this can simply be achieved by attaching a weatherproof copy of the provisional Order to the tree itself.

[richsafc]

There's no problem serving a TPO on land that's owner cannot be traced - the LPA will be aware of the process for this.

 

Do you know what this process is?

 

As far as I am aware from 'The Town and Country Planning Regulations' a notice has to be served on the owners/occupier of the land by naming them and giving them a copy of the TPO. Otherwise its not worth the paper it is written on.

 

Does anyone know of any written legislation which means the LA can put a TPO on a tree without doing this?

[treequip]

Do you know what this process is?

 

As far as I am aware from 'The Town and Country Planning Regulations' a notice has to be served on the owners/occupier of the land by naming them and giving them a copy of the TPO. Otherwise its not worth the paper it is written on.

 

Does anyone know of any written legislation which means the LA can put a TPO on a tree without doing this?

 

In the case of an absentee owner the courts consider it addequate to post the notice on the land in question in leiu of serving the person unknown.

[richsafc]

In the case of an absentee owner the courts consider it addequate to post the notice on the land in question in leiu of serving the person unknown.

 

Sorry for being pedantic but is this quoted from a legal document or just someones opinion?

[treequip]

Sorry for being pedantic but is this quoted from a legal document or just someones opinion?

 

It’s not at all pedantic, it’s a perfectly reasonable question

 

AFIK its it’s a judgement, if were impossible to protect trees on unregistered land where an owner could not be traced then potentially tens of thousands of trees could not be protected and that’s clearly against the spirit of the legislation.

[Amelanchier]

Without checking, I'm fairly confident that the wording of the legislation simply requires that the owner/occupier be served. To that end and in addition to the terms 'amenity' or 'tree', the act does not define 'served'.

[djbobbins]

It won't be common land - commons are owned by someone and registered on the commons register as commons.

 

It's a frequent misconception that common land is land that is 'owned by the people' or some such thing. A clearly defined set of people (the commoners) has certain benefits/rights, such as grazing, pannage, turbary etc but unless you are a defined commoner it doesn't mean much.

 

Urban commons have had public access for quite a while and accesss to rural commons was granted under the CRoW Act. That's only for basic access though, not to cut trees down or anything else along those lines.

 

There's no problem serving a TPO on land that's owner cannot be traced - the LPA will be aware of the process for this. Not wishing to invoke this process might be why they don't want to serve a TPO though...

 

Your client has to make all reasonable efforts to trace the title holder. He can manage it as his own while he is doing this, but of course he does it at risk. After 12 years he can then apply to register it in his name, providing no one shows up with a title deed in the mean time.

 

Land registry and the commons registers are two different things. Common land does not have to be registered at the land registry as belonging to someone. There is a guidance note from Defra somewhere on this.