What do NPTC certificates allow you to do?

[haforbes]

Thanks for all the replies, interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

 

NPTC certs allow you to get insurance to do what it says on the ticket.

It certainly doesn't mean you are going to be successful in business. That should be another NPTC certificate I reckon.

Seems to me most grief in business is driven by insurance compliance, H&S included. Blame the no win no fee guys (or thank them. Depends which side of the fence you are on)

 

Does this mean that the certificates aren't actually a legal requirement? They are there just to comply with regulations and to allow you to get insurance:confused1:?

[Matthew Storrs]

you can still get insured even without tickets sometimes but when it comes to making the claim, thats when they will ask questions. Most ins companies are happy to take your money in the first place, but somewhere in the small print in will state you require the appropriate tickets.

For me, getting my tickets was almost entirely for the above reason as I had been climbing 5 years before without them as an apprentice, when I eventually came round to getting them I found them very elementary, but then thats there purpose- to teach the basics correctly and the experiance should follow in time.

[agrimog]

BINGO, AT LAST, someones finally seen the light, correct chainsaw tickets are NOT a legal requirement, they are a "ticket " to print money for several training bodies and establishments, and are only a statement that on a certain day the holder was, in the "examiners" opinion , competent in the discipline being assesed. many will craw on about PUWER, HSE, and other bodies requiring theseb ut all the say is adequately trained

[treequip]

BINGO, AT LAST, someones finally seen the light, correct chainsaw tickets are NOT a legal requirement, they are a "ticket " to print money for several training bodies and establishments, and are only a statement that on a certain day the holder was, in the "examiners" opinion , competent in the discipline being assesed. many will craw on about PUWER, HSE, and other bodies requiring theseb ut all the say is adequately trained

 

 

That’s excellent news, but before we make a bonfire with our certs of competence, what about last years rather high profile case that made quite a lot of talk on here after the HSE prosecuted a chap for (among other things) not having tickets???????

[WorcsWuss]

That’s excellent news, but before we make a bonfire with our certs of competence, what about last years rather high profile case that made quite a lot of talk on here after the HSE prosecuted a chap for (among other things) not having tickets???????

 

I can't recall all the details but I don't think that he was charged and convicted of 'not having any tickets'.

Wasn't he simply working dangerously and could not evidence having had any formal training....? From what I remember, an NPTC card in his wallet wouldn't have gained him any leniency!

[treequip]

I can't recall all the details but I don't think that he was charged and convicted of 'not having any tickets'.

Wasn't he simply working dangerously and could not evidence having had any formal training....? From what I remember, an NPTC card in his wallet wouldn't have gained him any leniency!

 

He was prossecuted for no training (read no tickets) for himself and an employee and breachees under PUWER

[WorcsWuss]

He was prosecuted for no training (read no tickets) for himself and an employee and breachees under PUWER

 

That's where it comes down to the nitty gritty. Strictly speaking, training differs from assessment and if you have done the course but not the assessment (and hence have no tickets) you could still argue that you have been formally trained. All it needs is the trainer to stand up in court and say as much.

You could also go so far as paying for your own training from a qualified person, working to industry standard best practice without having anything to do with city & guilds.

Tickets are simply a quick way to check what training has been undertaken rather than a legal requirement.

All that aside, they have been accepted as the industry standard and, cost aside which I think is utterly ludicrous frankly, I like the current system the main.

[Stuart Phillips]

We have got inot this ticket culture. The bod who writes the tenders focuse on what tickets the contractors must have. The contractors therefore ensure that their guys have all the necessary tickets. The newbies entering the industry then have to get all the tickets to get a job. Nobody is asking about experience or expertise. Okay, you can fell a tree up to 380mm, but how does felling a pine differ from felling an oak? What about felling in different situations, And most of all, did it really need felling in the first place?

The requirement for all these tickets was supposed to make the industry (forestry and arb). Strikes me that it didn't make a great deal of difference.

[agrimog]

the great chainsaw ticket fiasco is just about to enter its next sequel with the re-branding that city and guilds is carrying out, colleges and groups are churning out youngsters willy nilly with a basic ticket, and these guys think there the greatest thing since sliced bread and every tree and forestry company will be queing up to give them a job, my gripe with the whole ticket farceis thats it is, and always has been a money generating farce for a few. you do not learn how to fell trees in a 5 day course, time it was better regulated, run by a non profit maker, and was awarded based on experience, skill, and actuall ability, assesed over a longer period by several assesors, who have nothing to gain by a factory production line of new tickets, only then will we start to see a system that will actually mean something, and bear some resemblence to the business that we are in

[Gollum]

the great chainsaw ticket fiasco is just about to enter its next sequel with the re-branding that city and guilds is carrying out, colleges and groups are churning out youngsters willy nilly with a basic ticket, and these guys think there the greatest thing since sliced bread and every tree and forestry company will be queing up to give them a job, my gripe with the whole ticket farceis thats it is, and always has been a money generating farce for a few. you do not learn how to fell trees in a 5 day course, time it was better regulated, run by a non profit maker, and was awarded based on experience, skill, and actuall ability, assesed over a longer period by several assesors, who have nothing to gain by a factory production line of new tickets, only then will we start to see a system that will actually mean something, and bear some resemblence to the business that we are in

 

So who is going to pay the assessors wages