Advice on future Plans please

[agg221]

Yeah im aware of felling licenses and the 5 cube limit but would this be halved if im selling tables etc made from it? Also if i buy a wood in need of thinning with no covenants could they realistically refuse a license?

thanks

James

 

I would be inclined to talk to the FC about it. Good management practice is usually encouraged, so you could get a view on thinning and if you present it as part of a management plan you should be able to get a licence for 10yrs at a time. The other practical point is that even 2 cube is quite a lot per quarter. You're talking about 6-8 trees per year, i.e. 2/quarter. I'm not quite sure how the volume is calculated, but assume it's based on useable timber, the table in the link below:

 

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/TimberVolumeCalculator.pdf/$FILE/TimberVolumeCalculator.pdf

 

indicates that you can take 20 linear metres of trees at 60cm mid-length diameter, so probably 3 trees/quarter. If you're at thinning stage this is pretty big!

 

Also a useful link is:

 

Forestry Commission - Felling licences exemptions

 

particularly if you consider the diameters below which a licence is not required and think of these as potential understorey coppice or rapidly felled sycamore, for firewood etc.

 

Alec

[muttley9050]

This is really great advice,thanks to all that are helping me.

[muttley9050]

I've not had much experience with felling licensees but the powers that be want to get woodlands working again - google and do your research on this beforehand. I've been told there are big tax breaks with woodland but again you need to do your research. A few points:

 

 

• I have a Peterson mill - very good piece of kit but looking at what you want to do is it worth buying one? I'd also think along the lines of hiring someone in say for 3 days at a time. What are the trees like in the woodland as the Peterson I find works best with 2.5 foot diameter+ Also not so good for sawing cladding as you lose a fair bit of kerf. For oak framing you need to have some good straight healthy oak - otherwise you'll do a lot of sawing and end up with little that can be used in a building.
  
• The 8" Peterson I have does cut 8" but I find it's on the limit of what it can cut - the 10" version does not have a more powerful engine just different gearing. That's why I got the 8"!
  
• I'd get a good chainsaw mill selection (although I'm biased ) - this means you can break down large butts in the wood and move them to be re sawn. This re sawing is always going to be best done on a bandsaw.
  
• Look at how you will market your furniture - the easy bit is sawing and making it, the hard bit is putting it in front of potential customers.
  

Thanks rob,

i thought that the peterson would give me another string to my bow, in that i could then mill for others, also i know a number of tree surgeons who get nice trees in backyards, i could buy the butts and thought a peterson would enable me to get in them easier.

I have done a little alaskan milling, but thought it would be too slow to think of in the long term. Everyone seems to prefer bandsaw mills but what about extra blade costs etc. Do you think this is eliminated by the extra kerf lost. Given your time again would you buy a bandsaw instead, maybe you have both, what do you use the most? Its certainly easier to buy a secondhand bandsaw mill than a peterson. Petersons just look better to me, but will have to take advice from the experienced.

thanks

[woodyguy]

I would agree that for personal usage 2 cubic metres per quarter is a good amount. Whether it is enough for your to make a business of it I wouldn't be able to comment on. Would certainly agree that if your wood was overgrown and you could get a management plan with the FC in place, then you could be onto a great thing. Tax breaks are for people buying 10000 acres of scottish coniferous plantation but I believe that profit you make from your 10 acre would should be tax free (but then you wouldn't be able to count equipment costs against tax as self employed people can).

Lots to think about....

[Big J]

Very good thread - somehow slipped me by and I've enjoyed reading it to catch up (excellent contributions from Alec).

 

Regarding bandsaws, the blade costs are quite small. I find that I typically get through a band every 50 cubic foot. Sharpening costs are about £7 a band, so it works out at 14 pence a cubic foot, which when you consider the average price when kiln dried is about £32, is a small cost.

 

Look at your woodland and try to realise the maximum value for each tree species. If you have ash, try to cut the lowest section of the butt for hurley sticks. If you have good quality yew, longbows. If you have beech, make chopping boards. If sweet chestnut, garden furniture and fencing. Oak, just about anything. Sycamore, chopping boards. Lots of possibilities.

 

To chime in on which saw to get, I'd recommend having a small bandsawmill with chainsawmill backup.

 

Jonathan

[muttley9050]

Thanks for your contribution Jonathon, much appreciated. when u say a small bandsawmill what sort of size would you recommend.

Also as a novice with a chainsaw(chopped tons of firewood and a little alaskan milling) what sort of tickets should i look at getting,for safety. I wont be felling any big trees but will be doing everything else to them except the dropping. Theres a course near me for chainsaw competent operator, that teaches the basics. Do you think this is enough?

Thanks again

James

[agg221]

You might find Small Woodland Owners' Group (SWOG) useful. I've specifically linked the courses page as that's what you were asking about:

 

Small Woodland Owners Group Blog Archive Courses for woodland owners

 

There are two important things to learn about chainsaws - the first is basic maintenance and the second is safe operation. They're both important. There are three possible routes to go down. One is formally recognised qualifications (typically CS30 and CS31 which can often be done as a combined course). You're looking at not far short of £1000 for this, but it would be recognised by, for example insurers.

 

The opposite extreme is informal training from your brother in law. If he's fully qualified, and you trust him, and believe he will be good and clear at explaining then this will give you (free?) one-to-one tuition to cover the basics. This could be perfectly satisfactory.

 

The in-between route would be a basic, uncertificated course, maybe from one of the providers on the SWOG site. The advantage of this type of course is that it can often be geared to showing what you need to know - for example the formal qualifications work their way up in diameter for felling, whereas if you own a woodland you're more likely to want to start by harvesting the bigger trees!

 

One major factor that will come into play here is what kind of insurance provision you need to make. Your circumstances will be different from mine, and I don't know the answer I'm afraid, but you can probably get a good answer from the SWOG forum.

 

Alec

[muttley9050]

Thanks again Alec, I have chainsaw maintenance sorted ithink. Very good with two strokes, can sharpen and tension a chain, know what to look at in bar condition and checking oil, airfilter etc. The place i live has a 100kw biomass boiler for heating and water, this is filled with logs. Quite used to cutting rings for splitting safely, but thats as far as it gos. Bro inlaw was full time climber but now due to knee probs works for city council as a highways tree inspector and works part time as a woodland consultant. Still climbs on weekends for private jobs sometimes.He can help me alot, so i guess i need to look into insurance and see what that turns up. Imthinking informal if insurers dont object, but i only need to insure myself onmy own land, so surely insurance is not compulsory merely there for peace of mind?

[woodyguy]

Muttley, not sure what insurance you refer to.

If you own a wood then you'll need to have public liability insurance as anybody entering your wood who gets injured can potentially sue you for not felling that diseased tree etc. This is only £120 for a small wood like you suggest.

 

Other than that not sure what you are looking to insure?

[muttley9050]

yeah i see your point, you get public liability, insure your equipment and anything else would just be personal accident cover incase you cut your arm off:biggrin: