Log sales what % goes to the black economy

[gensetsteve]

(i) GensetSteve, thank you for your comment re the lighting tower, would not have considered that otherwise.

Certainly worth considering as an affordable option.

(ii) SSC (as above) I would cost operations exactly as you do, in principle leastwise, everything in life must be paid for incl experience.

(iii) As a non arborculturist I do ponder some of the posts I come across on here, when as a thrifty Scots bred small farmers Son I tend to think that most of ye on here are very fond of expensive "toys" and a reasonably profligate beer swilling lifestyle, apparently:lol:.

(iv) I do also ponder why some think they can run a business/make a living when they cannot even do basic simple sums, it does take more than the capacity for hard physical work unfortunately, to be successful.

(v) Re the above I am also astounded at how unnecessarily physically hard some of you choose to work, lifting logs off the ground, hand splitting, multiple manually handling etc etc, I know hard work was never easy, plus I knackered my back doing fool things when younger, but unless a lot of actual artistnal skill is involved any cost effective production process must now be mechanised, not necessarily with shiney new kit though.

This why I am a "wage slave", regarding my very limited firewood non-business a a hobby, which just might morph into a retirment business.

cheers

Marcus

 

Hi Marcus

 

I think it was johns idea but it was a good one. I often see mint Kubota lighting sets for a third of the money of a genset. Normally the single phase alt has burnt out but you can just buy a new 3 ph one for £800 and fit it straight on.

 

I sent this to another member a day or so ago and it seems relevant to yourself.

 

6 Kva may be a bit small will give a kettle and heater but thats it. 10 kva may be better.

 

I would try and avoid the 3000 rpm air cooled stuff

 

The old air cooled lister 1500 rpm would be good for you.

 

If it was for me I would try and search out one of the old 650 rpm listers with the big flywheels. Failing that I like the 1500 rpm Kubotas.

 

Avoid at all cost Lister alpha watercooled engines, Lombardini, ruggerini and anything chinese.

 

A good silent 1500 rpm 10 kva used will probably still set you back £3000

 

We dont really get involved with sets under 30kva but the fuel consumption will be around 4-5 litres an hour rather than 1-3 for a 10 kva

 

Hope this helps

I sent this to someone recently and seems fairly relevant to yourself

[gensetsteve]

(i) GensetSteve, thank you for your comment re the lighting tower, would not have considered that otherwise.

Certainly worth considering as an affordable option.

(ii) SSC (as above) I would cost operations exactly as you do, in principle leastwise, everything in life must be paid for incl experience.

(iii) As a non arborculturist I do ponder some of the posts I come across on here, when as a thrifty Scots bred small farmers Son I tend to think that most of ye on here are very fond of expensive "toys" and a reasonably profligate beer swilling lifestyle, apparently:lol:.

(iv) I do also ponder why some think they can run a business/make a living when they cannot even do basic simple sums, it does take more than the capacity for hard physical work unfortunately, to be successful.

(v) Re the above I am also astounded at how unnecessarily physically hard some of you choose to work, lifting logs off the ground, hand splitting, multiple manually handling etc etc, I know hard work was never easy, plus I knackered my back doing fool things when younger, but unless a lot of actual artistnal skill is involved any cost effective production process must now be mechanised, not necessarily with shiney new kit though.

This why I am a "wage slave", regarding my very limited firewood non-business a a hobby, which just might morph into a retirment business.

cheers

Marcus

 

Hi Marcus

 

I think it was johns idea but it was a good one. I often see mint Kubota lighting sets for a third of the money of a genset. Normally the single phase alt has burnt out but you can just buy a new 3 ph one for £800 and fit it straight on.

 

I sent this to another member a day or so ago and it seems relevant to yourself.

 

6 Kva may be a bit small will give a kettle and heater but thats it. 10 kva may be better.

 

I would try and avoid the 3000 rpm air cooled stuff

 

The old air cooled lister 1500 rpm would be good for you.

 

If it was for me I would try and search out one of the old 650 rpm listers with the big flywheels. Failing that I like the 1500 rpm Kubotas.

 

Avoid at all cost Lister alpha watercooled engines, Lombardini, ruggerini and anything chinese.

 

A good silent 1500 rpm 10 kva used will probably still set you back £3000

 

We dont really get involved with sets under 30kva but the fuel consumption will be around 4-5 litres an hour rather than 1-3 for a 10 kva

 

Hope this helps

I sent this to someone recently and seems fairly relevant to yourself

[difflock]

Gensetsteve,

Thanks for that furthur information, exactly what I was looking for, pity I went down the PTO route with the wee cross cut saw, but I understand it would not cost a pile o money to retro fit a suitable 3 Ph motor.

Plus act as a standby genny for the house.

With my kinda agricultural background I keep getting advised to go down the tractor PTO route, but since I only got one tractor that hardly makes sense.

Thanks again.

****************

Albedo............I hope to get mine soon:001_tt2:, pity the kitty is bare:confused1:, the statutory Local Government Redundancy scheme is not generous.

I know from previous experience.

More generous than the private sector I admit, but still not generous.

Unlessen (i) one qualified for the Patton Scheme (for the RUC)

(ii) or generally MoD type jobs

(ii) or LA jobs at a much more elevated level than I work at

Edited September 19, 2012 by difflock

[difflock]

Gensetsteve,

Thanks for that furthur information, exactly what I was looking for, pity I went down the PTO route with the wee cross cut saw, but I understand it would not cost a pile o money to retro fit a suitable 3 Ph motor.

Plus act as a standby genny for the house.

With my kinda agricultural background I keep getting advised to go down the tractor PTO route, but since I only got one tractor that hardly makes sense.

Thanks again.

****************

Albedo............I hope to get mine soon:001_tt2:, pity the kitty is bare:confused1:, the statutory Local Government Redundancy scheme is not generous.

I know from previous experience.

More generous than the private sector I admit, but still not generous.

Unlessen (i) one qualified for the Patton Scheme (for the RUC)

(ii) or generally MoD type jobs

(ii) or LA jobs at a much more elevated level than I work at

Edited September 19, 2012 by difflock

[Dave Martin]

Hmmmm... an interesting thread this, and good to be on a forum where folks are disagreeing sensibly instead of the usual mud-slinging I see elsewhere. A very pleasant change.

 

Anyway... I think this is coming down to a conversation on overheads and wanted to take a moment to think about those - and happy to share the results.

 

Just what does a minimum-overheads wood business look like? I think mine is pretty close.

 

I guess it uses land you already own but which is otherwise unproductive and therefore no rental cost (true in my case).

 

I use a chainsaw and axe - so let's say £1000 or equipment depreciated to zero over 5 years at £200/ann. I do about 50 tons a year - 100 cubes - so that's £2 a cube.

 

I use £30 of bar oil, a chain at £45, half a bar at £50, a sprocket at £50 and 50 litres of petrol at £75. So £250 in consumables, or £2.50 a cube.

 

My 100 pallets last 10 years at £3 each, my 100 bags last 5 at £5 each. So £1.30 a cube.

 

That's £5.80 a cube so far. Hardwood cord is £52 a ton where I live, so £26 a cube. £31.80 a cube so far.

 

My trailer will give me 10 years, cost £1000 second-hand after add-ons like spare wheel and wheel clamp, and will probably cost me £1000 in maintenance bits over that time (e.g. replacement floor, brake pads, lights). So £200/ann, or £2 a cube. £33.80 so far.

 

Assume 20 miles per cube for delivery, 50p a mile running cost for the wife's Defender, £10 a cube.

 

I make that £43.80 in costs. The rest is pay for my time. £56.20 for 2 hours of work when all is told.

 

Anyone want to offer a comparison? Or a critique of the above numbers?

 

Excellent that you are taking a realistic view of the costs of running your business but it is easy to forget to include everything, accountancy, bank charges, advertising, phone, insurance, stationary, consumables, motoring expenses etc. etc.

[Dave Martin]

Hmmmm... an interesting thread this, and good to be on a forum where folks are disagreeing sensibly instead of the usual mud-slinging I see elsewhere. A very pleasant change.

 

Anyway... I think this is coming down to a conversation on overheads and wanted to take a moment to think about those - and happy to share the results.

 

Just what does a minimum-overheads wood business look like? I think mine is pretty close.

 

I guess it uses land you already own but which is otherwise unproductive and therefore no rental cost (true in my case).

 

I use a chainsaw and axe - so let's say £1000 or equipment depreciated to zero over 5 years at £200/ann. I do about 50 tons a year - 100 cubes - so that's £2 a cube.

 

I use £30 of bar oil, a chain at £45, half a bar at £50, a sprocket at £50 and 50 litres of petrol at £75. So £250 in consumables, or £2.50 a cube.

 

My 100 pallets last 10 years at £3 each, my 100 bags last 5 at £5 each. So £1.30 a cube.

 

That's £5.80 a cube so far. Hardwood cord is £52 a ton where I live, so £26 a cube. £31.80 a cube so far.

 

My trailer will give me 10 years, cost £1000 second-hand after add-ons like spare wheel and wheel clamp, and will probably cost me £1000 in maintenance bits over that time (e.g. replacement floor, brake pads, lights). So £200/ann, or £2 a cube. £33.80 so far.

 

Assume 20 miles per cube for delivery, 50p a mile running cost for the wife's Defender, £10 a cube.

 

I make that £43.80 in costs. The rest is pay for my time. £56.20 for 2 hours of work when all is told.

 

Anyone want to offer a comparison? Or a critique of the above numbers?

 

Excellent that you are taking a realistic view of the costs of running your business but it is easy to forget to include everything, accountancy, bank charges, advertising, phone, insurance, stationary, consumables, motoring expenses etc. etc.

[Crazy Cutter]

Excellent that you are taking a realistic view of the costs of running your business but it is easy to forget to include everything, accountancy, bank charges, advertising, phone, insurance, stationary, consumables, motoring expenses etc. etc.

 

Motoring expenses are not to be overlooked. I cut and delivered 450 cube last winter, with the 110 doing 18000 miles over the year (i don't drive it for fun) and my fuel bill came in at 6500.00 for the year and is now my biggest expense.

[Crazy Cutter]

Excellent that you are taking a realistic view of the costs of running your business but it is easy to forget to include everything, accountancy, bank charges, advertising, phone, insurance, stationary, consumables, motoring expenses etc. etc.

 

Motoring expenses are not to be overlooked. I cut and delivered 450 cube last winter, with the 110 doing 18000 miles over the year (i don't drive it for fun) and my fuel bill came in at 6500.00 for the year and is now my biggest expense.

[markieg31]

dont get me started on the price of fuel!!

anywhere i go it is 20 quid minimum!!

something that you really need to take into consideration when delivering!! i suppose a tipper might be more economical than a 4x4 and trailer, although i can get a cube in the back of me fourtrak but gives of the wrong impression me thinks.

[markieg31]

dont get me started on the price of fuel!!

anywhere i go it is 20 quid minimum!!

something that you really need to take into consideration when delivering!! i suppose a tipper might be more economical than a 4x4 and trailer, although i can get a cube in the back of me fourtrak but gives of the wrong impression me thinks.