best practice Vs working practice

[arbogrunt]

Right, at risk of upsetting apple carts, what aspects of best practice/regulation in climbing do you ignore whilst working?.

I find many climbers I work with or for choose to ignore lots of things taught in training. At the very worst, I see climbers freeclimb to their final anchor points (we used to do this on street trees 18 years ago ).

There are other aspects of training which just don't fit into the ideal training perception of the working lives of rank and file Arborists. How many of you actually record your personal LOLER inspections weekly?...not many I'll wager (I know I don't!).

How about using a flipline and your lifeline/sidestrop together whilst actually spiking up stems (I don't mean to 'changeover' around stubs or branches)......a great way of spiking your climb line.

I also know many climbers who don't use a secondary anchor whilst working (although I have found that a secondary anchor makes for much more ergonomic work positioning during cutting).

Also, using side D-rings above you chest height during changerovers/getting into a tree?...we all do at work!.

Lastly, justifying climbing a tree instead of using a £400/day MEWP...if the tree is unclimbable..yes...otherwise the cost of the MEWP is justification itself...in reality someone else WILL climb it.

Refresher training...again, many disregard the recommendation of 5 yearly updates...especially as were all biting the bullet during this long term recession.

So, my question is, what do working arborists and Full time trainers feel about the concept of 'best practice' and regulation, particularly the WAH regs, moving away from what we all do, day in, day out to earn a crust as arborists?

[Paul Jenks]

Wow.

There's one for a Saturday night.

 

I think the basis for best practice has to stem from good industry training. There will always be a discrepency between what actually goes on in the field and in the classroom. There will always be different ways of working as the environment we work in cannot be wholly covered by structured training. There will always be differences as there are people involved, notwithstanding the fact that trees differ in size, shape, location, state of health and stability etc, etc.

Part of the reason for most of the guys working in this industry is the buzz. Take that away and people either leave the industry or create a daily buzz by 'breaking' the 'rules'. We all do it or have done it.

Our training system has to adapt back to the old way of training people to carry out a task rather than pass a test in a sterile situation.

Continuous work development is an answer where, more than just re-doing a test, workers abilities to address different tasks are assessed and discussed. Training days or workshops. People need to be able to assess the risks they take before, during and after and apply the knowledge.

 

Sorry, not as conclusive as I'd have liked to be. The kids are screaming and I'm getting the evil eye from my wife for being on here.

[Pete Mctree]

There is a practical half-way between the two extremes. I'll call it "good practice"

 

Stay tied in at all times - twice if your behaving yourself.

Even though you don't do the paper-work, look after your kit & inspect it on a regular basis.

Limit 1 handed saw use & cut & holding. When done, done with care - plus try & use slings on bigger bits as it protects your elbows

Save all your MEWP jobs up & try & do them in a day

 

etc

 

 

Not what many want to hear but it's that sadly lacking common sense application. It's a hard industry that required physical & mental toughness & the essential use of grey matter.

[not for sale sorry]

[born2trot]

There is a practical half-way between the two extremes. I'll call it "good practice"

 

Stay tied in at all times - twice if your behaving yourself.

Even though you don't do the paper-work, look after your kit & inspect it on a regular basis.

Limit 1 handed saw use & cut & holding. When done, done with care - plus try & use slings on bigger bits as it protects your elbows

Save all your MEWP jobs up & try & do them in a day

 

etc

 

 

Not what many want to hear but it's that sadly lacking common sense application. It's a hard industry that required physical & mental toughness & the essential use of grey matter.

 

Well theres really not much more to be said

[likeitorlumpit]

Best practice involves a lot of writing vs working practice that often involves none

[will.morris]

I think you can compare it to driving a car (hear me out I've not lost the plot lol). When you take your test in order to pass you have to do everything 100% how its written in the textbook, over egging mirror checks, 10-2 at all times, driving at the speed limit (not slightly over or under). But in reality no one drives like this and IMO that does'nt make us unsafe on the road.

 

How that relates to climbing I think is that how we are taught is the guideline to be the ultimate safe arborist, but we feel that its not really unsafe to do things not quite so strict. In reality we all often work to a tight time schedule and it just wouldn't be practical to do everything by the book every single time. It only becomes dangerous when you stray too far from the guidelines. For example there is a video on youtube of a take down and for 90% of the tree he is doing cut and hold with a single anchor point I won't show the video because I don't want to name and shame (could be someone on here!) but IMO there is a difference between work practice and dangerous work practice, as there is best driving, regular driving and dangerous driving.

 

Wow that coffee has kicked in lol

[Tony.Price]

Best practice as per the Acts/Regulations & ACOPS is the only way to cover your back under legislation.

 

I have experienced a number of incidents with my employees over the years, mostly due to the individuals complacency and short cuts.

 

Thankfully when reported the investigations found all paperwork, training and provisions to be in place, few! Insurance was never a problem and I have had no reprisals.

 

Would this have been the case should I not have had the employees training and interim recorded inspections of their kit up to date?

 

In a court of law I would have been very concerned should I not of abided by the WAH & LOLER reg's among the various other reg's and ACOPS under the HSWA.

 

As an employer and worker with a family to support I have to much to loose to ignore the law, so I en devour to comply, however painfull it is to see another contractor get the job on a cheaper price by ignoring (some times) the legislation taking the short cuts that i could have done, should I not have morals.

 

Remember the bit at the beginning of most training courses, that goes; ACOPs can be used as a guide to best practice in the work place but can also be used against you in a court of law should you ignore them completely!

 

I write as both worker/employer and trainer/assessor.

[arbogrunt]

agree with everything on here,but how about reducing a conifer hedge?. I am pretty good with not using a saw one handed, I put time into work positioning to avoid it when I can. I rarely cut and hold on any jobs, but how about Conifers?.

Your average Leyland hedge blows everything out of the water. Cut and hold/cut and chuck is the order of the day and as for secondary anchoring....forget it. Tree surgeons sleeves and chainsaw gloves might help a bit, but I know many people who have cut themselves over the years working like we all do in this way.

Another example, would you use a 6 wrap prussik to back up a lowering device/fig 8 or munter hitch on a type C 3 man rescue?....in training/assessment yes, in a real life rescue when seconds count...I personally would not.

Best practice is the standard we should all aspire to of course, but price driven work practices will always make us take a line between doing everything by the book and getting the job done in the time allowed by the job-price.

[Pedroski]

Conifers - attack them with telescopic pole saw from the ground or scramble up them and attack with a big Silky