Council Highways Cock-up; What would you do?

[wildewood]

It's a challenge to get a right answer as there are a few variables as stated above. The H&S part of me says I'd have told them to go away. The realist part says, " were they any good, did they look like they were going to cause themselves any harm, did they help me earn a bit more, or at the very least make the job easier."

A communication with the council could vary from forceful indignation, copied to as many officials as you can get email addresses for, to a gentle note, to the line manager, stating that the PPE on site on this occasion was note what you'd come to expect of them.

Round here the council workers wear so much PPE I'm surprised they can do much work. (Sorry, my mistake they don't do much work.)

 

First truck from highways team turns up with 7 year old son in the cab, but no road closed signs, adding to the chaos. I had no right to turn them away really, and didn't want to, just wanted them to work safely. One stated, despite using chainsaw and chipper, that as there were no 'overhead obstructions' he didn't need a hard hat.Maybe he hadn't seen the three hung up trees above him.

No, they didn't help me earn any more as I am responsible for the Estate's trees. This tree was on the public highway, and after asking the council 'crew' to don PPE one of them went to load the tracked chipper and leave, and was only stopped by (yet another) council bod who had turned up. I asked him to clarify that because I had asked for PPE to be worn, having responsibilty for everyones safety on site, as we all do, he was refusing to clear the obstruction on the highway? I could of course have left them to it, but had no faith in their abilities having seen them work over the years.

As you say, the options for contact are varied, hence the question 'what would you do...!

[wildewood]

So have they done what is in essence your work (responsibility) Is this a private estate with unadopted roads

If so- you must be chuffed to have their help

If it's adopted then why not leave them to it or is it that you will get paid by the estate so value their help.

Is the worry that if you are getting paid then are they effectively working under your supervision.

I would assume they do their own risk assessment and so it's down to them to stay safe.

But your risk assessment would preclude working alongside anyone not wearing PPE. Have you checked whether they have relevant tickets?

I guess you should have stopped working and told them to leave and unless they did you should have left the site (safe)- then phoned the council officer.

I wouldn't know what to do at the time and similarly would be asking on here- sorry I'm no help at all.

Hope someone else knows

Public highway. Risk assessment was not undertaken by them, another reason to contact council HSE dept maybe.. As for phoning this council after 5 on a Friday... These unprepared for situations are always hard to deal with.

[wildewood]

id be pissed if that happened to me. I work for a council and weve got a great boss and equipment( very much looked affter). As a basic rule of thumb, if you do one thing the council are ment to do one more. i.e if they was a fully working crew with upto date pratices this shouldnt of happened,also with the council being h&s mad/overboard id defo contact not just a line manager but the dept manager on this. also we only have the 1 trees and woodlands dept which then gets contracted out to other dept like highways schools etc. so id call trees and woodlands 1st bud

 

These lot can't move for new gear, just seems they didn't bring it with them. We are in the National Park here so trees are Park authority, trees falling into roads are council highways dept.

[Dan Earp]

id be pissed if that happened to me. I work for a council and weve got a great boss and equipment( very much looked affter). As a basic rule of thumb, if you do one thing the council are ment to do one more. i.e if they was a fully working crew with upto date pratices this shouldnt of happened,also with the council being h&s mad/overboard id defo contact not just a line manager but the dept manager on this. also we only have the 1 trees and woodlands dept which then gets contracted out to other dept like highways schools etc. so id call trees and woodlands 1st bud

 

These lot can't move for new gear, just seems they didn't bring it with them. We are in the National Park here so trees are Park authority, trees falling into roads are council highways dept.

 

id call them both with a letter sent aswell bud. that way the crew will be found out and get it from both side. from what you have said that went on, the way our dept works it would go straight for investigation and more than likely a final written warning or loss of job. Sent it in bud, lately theres been too many arbs on the news, and far too many tarnishing our good hard working names

[wildewood]

id call them both with a letter sent aswell bud. that way the crew will be found out and get it from both side. from what you have said that went on, the way our dept works it would go straight for investigation and more than likely a final written warning or loss of job. Sent it in bud, lately theres been too many arbs on the news, and far too many tarnishing our good hard working names

I agree; one of the issues I have with this is that it lowers the standards of professionalism most of us strive for. And if injury or long term harm was to occur to a council employee, we the tax payer have to pay.

[likeitorlumpit]

Also thinking if you carried on working after assessing that they needed PPE- what if your hung up hit one of them on the head and they claimed- would they be claiming off you.

Who's running the site- responsibility

It's a minefield and just because some bloke gets the arse because he doesn't like being told to don hard hat.

Sounds a bit testosterone fuelled- as usual this is not the best working combination.

Surely there must be some structure in place if you have this shared responsibility- you for National Park trees and them for highway clearance.

If not then maybe it's a good time to get something put in place.

Otherwise when the s**t hits the fan next time you could be out on a limb (Nice pun)

You definately need to get in touch with the council relevant department- it is the professional way and then next time everyone knows their responsibilities.

It's a problem sometimes I know especially when a customer/tennant decides he/she knows best and starts helping us clear stuff or decides to cut a hedge nearby -'because they can put the arisings through your chipper- you don't mind do you'....... thats maybe for another thread.

[scottyd]

Well heres a true story . About 11 12 yrs ago i was subcontracting for a london company , we where pruning plane trees in Aldwich london ( lift thin reduce from buildings, street furniture etc ) . It was a saturday job due to traffic etc... we had had a good day both climbers had earned £500 each and the 3 groundsmen £250 each... so we started off home ... along the route home we got flagged down on the marylybone road ( one of londons busiest a roads ) just past the planatarium . The person who was flagging us down was the head of englands south easts health and saftey , due to a stretch of scaffolding having been blown of its mounts on a building under construction and had landed in approx 7 small to medium plane trees . it was blocking 2 lanes of the eastbound carrigeway .. 20 police on site the scaffolders and the health and saftey man on site already trying to deal with and rectify the resulting chaos ,,, it was windy and raining hard . Me being the chap in charge went to talk to the man withmetal hands ( the health and saftey man ) , he wanted us to assist with the clean up and inspect the trees after and undertake any remedial works nessacary there and then .. Before agreeing i stated that none of had ballistics and only the grounsmen had hard hats... His reply was thats ok .. u are an arb approved company ( not i the company i was subbing for ) ...AND ITS AN EMERGENCY SO EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES APPLY... needless to say we stayed did what was asked and required followed with a written report on each tree ,, the best bit was the invoice ... i was told we could invoice the health and saftey commision for whatever we wanted ( whithin reason ) ... i told the man flatly we would invoice you only for the amount we had already earned doing the trees in Aldwich ( therefore doubling our already good day in 2 hours extra works ).. To finish off with the payment was a short note .. thanking us for our expediance and total proffesionalism in wich the works where carried out from start to finish from the health and saftey executive of the uk .... And i still believe trousers are only a general recomendation ( but a requirment on certian contracts or within a companys method statement )...and the babylon stop traffic fast .....