Windsor

[David Humphries]

In-house manufactured, by Tony Ambrose. There is/was a youtube vid showing Ted and Tony in discussion about the tree-propping project - can't seem to find it at the moment, though.

 

Thanks, is Tony the crown estate farrier ?

 

 

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[lowerforest]

David - I've never known Tony to be referred to as a 'farrier', but I have no doubt he could do it if required! He's a very talented man when it comes to metalworking

 

When I last spoke to Ted G, he mentioned the possibility of trying to get Tony involved once again with the metal re-propping of the oak we're discussing (which I understand Ted refers to as (King) Offa's Oak, thereby tying-in with the tree's supposed age @ c1300 years old).

Edited April 19, 2012 by lowerforest

[lowerforest]

update - I have spoken today to one of the Forest Rangers at Windsor, who tells me that the previously-mentioned Ted G nursery isn't doing too well. I had looked in on it a few weeks back, and noticed the distinct lack of new seedlings from what was a genuine concerted effort by all concerned to raise some new trees from the Offa's Oak 2011 seed stock. The apparent lack of successful germination (plus damage from vermin) also includes the c550 acorns planted by my parents ... oh well.. I shall have a drive up there this weekend to see things for myself.

 

On a lighter note, the 400 acorns sown in pots here have done better. I now have c300 healthy seedlings, so I'm very pleased with the results to date, and all may not be lost with the project to raise some new trees from the acorns collected from Offa's Oak. Here's hoping I can keep them safe and healthy until planting-out time, whenever that may be!

 

I also sent a small parcel of c25 acorns to another ardent ancient tree 'devotee' - I shall be very interested to find out how this batch have fared - hopefully, successfully!

[David Humphries]

Thanks for the interesting update

 

 

What sowing medium have you used for your 400 acorns?

 

Any inoculation of the soil from around the parent tree?

 

 

cheers

 

D

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[arbwork]

Lowerforest, thank you for your post what a brilliant reply to Davids question ‘Have you had the opportunity to see it?’ one of the best in content and action I’ve read on arbtalk, long may you continue to care respect!

[lowerforest]

David - the acorns were collected and bagged in small amounts of leaf litter collected from around the base of Offa's Oak, then mixed 50/50 with damp compost before stratification in my fridge for 3-4 months. Planting medium is a c25/75 mix of peat-free compost and sieved general purpose topsoil (purchased from a local topsoil merchant). No soil was collected from the Forest or used in the planting medium - not allowed to remove it (SSSI).

 

The soil in Cranbourne is acidic heavy London Clay, but my planting medium incorporates a much lighter loam. In my chat with the Forest Ranger, we discussed the probability of having to plant each individual seedling in a prepared hole, complete with the pot soil ball intact, so as to minimise root disturbance, and to give the tree a better chance to establish itself in its new home before root growth extends out into the surrounding soil. It was pointed out that this is a far more labour-intensive exercise as opposed to bare-root planting, but I consider it to be worth the effort in this case, as its taken a looooong time to collect and raise a batch of seedlings from this particular tree! And yes - I'm more than prepared to get my hands dirty in order to get this done!

 

Apart from regular watering and weeding, there has been no other treatment or chemicals applied to the seedlings to date. Although the seedlings look to be doing well, I have thought about feeding each pot with a small amount of bonemeal, to try to stop the pot soil from becoming drained of nutrient - what do you think about this?

 

Arbwork - thanks for the comments, and I hope you will continue to look in on this thread as the project develops (albeit slowly!)

Edited June 28, 2012 by lowerforest

[lowerforest]

Another part of this project is formulating a plan for the eventual use of the Oak seedlings. Because of their 'historical significance', and the possibility that we may not see another seed-production year (like 2011) for many years to come, I'd be interested to hear of suggestions as to how/where this batch of seedlings could be put to best use.

 

As I currently have around 300 seedlings on the go, I have been thinking of a planting scheme incorporating this number, but with an essential element being the planting of each seedling in what would be its final position - ie, there is to be no thinning of the Oaks as they grow to maturity. I have been advised that a suitable spacing to achieve this is 25m, so as to avoid encroachment of the mature trees on each other, and to (almost) redress the need for halo-ing, as it the current practice at Windsor.

 

At 25m spacing, and using a formal design (rectangle, perhaps?) there's going to be a need for a BIG plot of land to achieve this! There's also the need for the provision of an accompanying 'understory' crop of trees, which would also assist in the early growth of the Oaks, and which would be removed in due course. What trees would be suitable for this?

 

Any ideas/suggestions are most welcome.

[David Humphries]

Are you thinking just maidens and there optimal spread for the whole long term project aim or also thinking about pollards, which if started young enough and maintained would never reach the maximum spread suggested ?

 

Pollards could be placed at a closer spacing, no ?

 

 

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[lowerforest]

David - I think that the paper plan would have to be for the trees to be cared for as maiden oaks (or park oaks, as I've also known them as).

 

Obviously, one cannot foretell with any certainty as to how the trees will fare in future times, or even who will be around to look after them, but if the plan was to have the trees managed as pollards, and then having to maintain them as such, then there is the problem of how to attempt to ensure that this will be done as and when circumstances require it.

 

At least with maiden oaks, the trees ( and the plantation understory) are effectively allowed to grow unhindered, except for any essential/neccessary arb maintenance, which would hopefully be undertaken by the trees' custodians.

 

There are some fine examples of advanced-age maiden oaks in the Great Park and nearby, (there's one within 100yds of Offa's Oak) and although the 'historical element' of such a project may argue the case for a re-creation of an ancient method of tree management for these particular specimens, I personally would feel a little more comfortable if the plan was for maiden oaks, as then there is less of a definite need for tree management in future times - and of course, none of us are going to be around to check up on their progress!

 

I do think that a permanently-managed plantation of pollarded oaks would look splendid, and would help to perpetuate the knowledge and eventual result of the process that has delivered our present-day veterans. However, it's not as probable that any future custodians would continue this process, whereas leaving them to develop as park oaks simply will cost less in time, money and resources, and therefore has a greater possibility of the trees' uninterrupted continuation of growth to a state of maturity.

 

What would be your preference - maidens or pollards?

 

With reference to the spacing, I've been looking at the veteran oaks in Lower Forest, Windsor, and where halo-ing has been carried out around these trees, the space created to the next tree canopy (irrespective of species) would appear to be around 5m in all directions. Bearing in mind the canopy spread of a veteran park oak (or pollard, for that matter) I would have thought 25m planting would be a minimum spacing requirement if thinning-out of the oaks is to be avoided throughout their lives.

 

PS - I'd just like to remind all our readers that I'm no qualified forester or tree expert - this is all based on what I've seen for myself, and from amounts of advice I've received from people far better qualified to comment!

[arbwork]

I am in awe of the work and input to achieve the 300 seedlings you have, your observations and diligence over the years make you a ‘tree expert’ experience is the best qualification . for suggestions ideas what to do with the trees I feel it important to achieve something relevant to the provenance and area with the majority , something possibly linked in with the Jubilee, just a simple planting of 60 trees in the park to mark the occasion, a large diamond shaped planting of 60 future maidens although corny is a possibility ? I note from google there are many avenues around Windsor an extension to long walk or another avenue, it may be venue other than Windsor, ask Prince Charles he has his heart in the right place for a project of this nature , other possibilities such as involving associations such as woodland trust, arb association, Royal forestry society, etc, places of national and or royal connection such as the national memorial arboretum other arboretum throughout the country and abroad, commonwealth even .

It is important that the trees go to locations where they are looked after with the support and maintenance needed to ensure there longevity, I have seen some great examples of this with the Wollemi Pine for instance. Good luck