Is product development technically effective or unecessarily complex?

[hesslemount]

I've concluded with vt on 1.5M of 8mm aramide with anchor hitches with overhand stopper knots using an ISC small fixed cheek pulley. Will give it a whirl for a few months as it looks and feels good on my practice tree. It sits on the krab (geko) nicely and isn't hampered by too much hardware (something I ain't keen on). I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks Rupe for your help.

[Rupe]

My pleasure, always keen to have another look at the helical! Its fun.

 

IN fact I was first shown it by the same Craig as you were! I wonder if he know any other knots yet!

[storm]

hello,

 

i used to climb on the helical and absolutley loved it. I would use an 8 mm prussik cord with either 3 or 4 turns and my climbing line was an 13 mm line and it was very nice and very fast. Also i found with this knot that i would leave the pully out of this system, since you tie te knot quite loose it would advange itself when thrusting.

But since i have changed to a 10 mm climbing line i haven't used this knot anymore because it just doesn't seem to grip on this line. Unless you make like 5 or 6 turns in the knot and then it will just lock up on the line. and what is the point of using a fast knot if its keeps getting stuck on your line.

But i would defenitly recommend giving this knot a try.

[Laz]

A) the helical is just one of many "advanced" friction hitches. Advanced really just means that they self tend with use of a small pulley. They are undoubtably different than blakes/prussik and some would say better.

 

The helical (I used it for 2-3 years) is one of the riskiest! It doesn't always grab the rope unless you tie it tight, but then it wont self tend, so you need to tie it loose and hope for the best!

 

I disagree completely:

 

IMHO The Helical is the safest of all the half hitch free prusiks. IF tied correctly, it can be fine tuned for the ultimate performance.

 

In addition, because of the way it is tied, it can be set to any length. This makes it a great hitch for those wanting something to upgrade from a Blakes/Prusik performance.

[Rupe]

IF tied correctly.........thats my point!

[Craig Johnson]

My pleasure, always keen to have another look at the helical! Its fun.

 

IN fact I was first shown it by the same Craig as you were! I wonder if he know any other knots yet!

 

dont be cheeky boy.

 

if you want to keep up try reading the 'tree climbers knotbook' by dirk lingens its a few years old now but i'm sure that it will be all new to you:001_cool:

 

the 8mm cord show in your first picture is not the best choice for this knot.

[Laz]

IF tied correctly.........thats my point!

 

You can say that about any knot, so my point is, the Helical is way more reliable than a VT.

 

I have never found a VT as safe as a Helical, if fine tuning to attempt it to grip without question, yet release easily. This is because the Helical has the distinct advantage of being able to cinch up the Bowline once the number of braids and wraps are found that work with a specific system, so the slack can be adjusted to the millimeter. In comparison, the VT can loosen more, because the legs have no means to prevent them from separating. This makes the Vt able to advance easier, yet that advantage can easily turn into a serious safety concern by not grabbing when required.

 

When competing against each other, Jon Hartill came up with the idea of running both legs through a small stainless steel ring to prevent the VT from separating away from the rope when released. We both moved on to the Helical. I'm not sure why Jon did, but I did for this reason.

 

IMHO, setting up a VT to self tail is just asking for trouble - lightweight climbers can get away with it.

[scotspine1]

The Helical is the safest of all the half hitch free prusiks.

 

In addition, because of the way it is tied, it can be set to any length. This makes it a great hitch for those wanting something to upgrade from a Blakes/Prusik performance.

 

I like the easily adjustable length of the Blakes, but it's never worked well with a slack tender pulley even when tied very short - too chunky. I'm using Marlow gecko for climbing line with gecko split tail(Blakes) without a slack tender these days. Usually use Yale xtc, but credit crunch forces Marlow. Does anyone know of a good system of using a Blakes with a slack tender that will work effectively?

 

Do I need to try a Michoan or Helical with smaller cord for the friction hitch? or is there anyway to get a Blakes to work better using 13mm rope?

 

cheers

 

tc

 

 

.

Edited December 15, 2008 by scotspine1

[Craig Johnson]

You can say that about any knot, so my point is, the Helical is way more reliable than a VT.

 

I have never found a VT as safe as a Helical, if fine tuning to attempt it to grip without question, yet release easily. This is because the Helical has the distinct advantage of being able to cinch up the Bowline once the number of braids and wraps are found that work with a specific system, so the slack can be adjusted to the millimeter. In comparison, the VT can loosen more, because the legs have no means to prevent them from separating. This makes the Vt able to advance easier, yet that advantage can easily turn into a serious safety concern by not grabbing when required.

 

IMHO, setting up a VT to self tail is just asking for trouble - lightweight climbers can get away with it.

 

i agree with all that Laz say's on this point so far:wink:

[Laz]

Ha! I like the caveat Craig.....like I'm almost garaunteed to upset anyone at any moment!

 

Tim

 

I'd say the Helical is for you, tied with 10mm cord. The new ISC pulley looks like it was made for it. Don't ask me what its called - Judge will know, and I'm sure he'll supply it at a credit crunch worthy price.