Dangerous boughs/trees on a shoot estate.

[blazer]

I help out P/T on a large estate with paths, bridalways etc, wonder off route areas and a large shoot 250 bird days covering most of the estate.

 

Knowbody is into woodland management, with the head keeper having most of the say what happens in the extensive woods, but doesn't want the woods disturbed, there are boughs hanging up/down, trees hungup & morbidly obese dead trees - I don't enter the woods on a windy day.

 

There are the public assess area paths etc but also during the shoot season up to 20 beaters walking in line through the woods.

 

Whats the libility? bit difficult to call an incident an accident with the woods in that state. Basicly who takes the 'wrap' if there is an accident?

 

What woodland management should be practically done to improve safety?

 

What if any are the 'requirements' that should be followed, for woods on a shooting estate?

 

Thanks in advance

[PhilBeech]

What ever is reasonably practicable. If the Estate know there are issues and are then 'inviting' people into the woodland they are asking for trouble.

 

A basic survey adjacent to main routes with a rolling programme of work on the worst trees should satisfy.

 

You'll never, and should never, make a mature woodland 'safe' anyway.

 

A common sense approach should be the way forward.

[David Humphries]

A common sense approach should be the way forward.

 

 

Have a look at section 5 of the NTSG "Common sense risk management of trees" guidance.

 

There are a number of scenarios within it, number 6 (page 70) would seem to best fit your situation.

'Large estate with public access'

 

It talks about access, responsibility, arboricultural competence & record keeping amongst other things.

 

You should find that useful.

 

 

Down load the PDF from here

 

 

 

 

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[blazer]

Many thanks - I will pass it all onto the head keeper & estate managers.

[Ty Unnos]

Many thanks - I will pass it all onto the head keeper & estate managers.

 

You are doing the right thing - but I am not sure they will thank you for it!

 

Isn't there something about insurance not covering a tree if you have been made aware that it is dangerous and not taken action?

[Dean Lofthouse]

I,m shoot captain on a 3500 acre estate and on windy days I have to decide which drives we do and avoid woodland drives on such days. Large woodland is impossible to make safe and common sense should prevail

 

If a shoot captain allows drives within a woodland on gusty days then he,s a "plonker Rodney "

 

However, public footpaths are reasonably easy to maintain provided the public stick to them.

[blazer]

You are doing the right thing - but I am not sure they will thank you for it!

 

Isn't there something about insurance not covering a tree if you have been made aware that it is dangerous and not taken action?

 

By been 'made aware' does that mean an email to the managers, or a more formal approach?

 

Some won't like the idea of pointing it out, they see themselves a bit like Charles 1st - born with the right to rule. I have been helping out there for 15 yrs, and enjoy it but the dangers from trees is a concern.

 

There is a HSE visit to the estate soon, not sure what areas they will be covering?

 

As far as being aware of danger to beaters etc - last year they carried on with the shoot during a heavy snow storm, madness.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I would have it signed as such, "this is a wild woodland area for game birds and other wildlife, as such it is as nature intended and subject to natural failures one enters into the woods at ones own risk and expected to take responsibility for ones own saftey regarding natural vegetation including trees".

 

sign it or get off the shoot, end of, are we honeslty expecting anyone to manage acres and acres of shoot? of course not and no judge would condone such a commitment and overbearing financial burden, not to mention the damage to the natural environment.

 

It is not a high street!

[NI Tree]

shoots contribute a large income to the estates in more ways than one, and one of the big problem is owners putting the shoot first which is understandable and keepers know there job can be own the line if the season does not go well and the uncertainty on how it will effect the shoot.

 

There for they do not like to risk it as it not £100 but thousands could be at stake, and this means that forestry ops have not happened there for it has been vicious circle,

And I am ecourontring this problem with some woods I manage

 

the uk reliance on conifers and FC drive for timber production over the years over has lad to the lack an loss of knowledge and skill in required the multipurpose forestry has not helped and the difficulties that come with multipurpose forestry, and a to manage a shoot and to carry out forestry is very hard to do well, ( it worse in NI )

 

and for it to and the timing of the operations for is not easy and often the work has to be carry out in small operations making it very expensive to carry out forestry operations and they have to be taken slowly as the woods have often been necutalated makeing it harder again lol I am we probably going to invest in our on forestry gear as gives us our own flexibility in the woods, due to the diffictaly in managing woods with a large shoot. We have suffered from this our selfs and know how hard it is to do lol

 

but this has created a woods that have become neglected have meant that there is a large amount of dead wood, and trees of high wild life value, and lots of fungi, and barn owls and lots of other endangered species lol and it the high number of old trees lol and the benefit from this out ways the risks and cost dealing with this problem as you do we do as dean dose himself, and the likes of David Humphries Hamadryad love there fungi shoot and David created monaloths from his dead trees to reduce the risk to the high foot fall of Jo public, do you want him to fell them as they dead, and at higher risk of falling over as ‘dangerous’ even though they been reduced. The difference is shoots have a very low foot fall and where a risk is identified with a tree they do deal with it, but they are also bound by restrictions that are also placed on the owners by the department of agriculture through grants extra and even forestry certification means that you should leave all standing dead wood in situe,

 

but I do agree with blazer and hamadryad and I drop dangerous trees (path side trees more very few in the wood ) but I also try to leave the dead wood exctra and it near impossible to check every bit of a wood,

 

ps how often do they do the drives as it an important factor, and the risk to a member of beating line is higher from a dangerous shot than a tree falling on you as the beating line is spread through the wood so the risk is higher but it is lower that a path as the tree in question as it only passed a few time a year but if near a paths or lanes it a different matter, and as dean said he would not do a higher risk woods in bad weather. And we do the same,

 

its not easy lol and I wish you all the best of luck

[Alycidon]

I,m shoot captain on a 3500 acre estate and on windy days I have to decide which drives we do and avoid woodland drives on such days. Large woodland is impossible to make safe and common sense should prevail

 

If a shoot captain allows drives within a woodland on gusty days then he,s a "plonker Rodney "

 

However, public footpaths are reasonably easy to maintain provided the public stick to them.

 

Agreed, I run a somewhat smaller shoot. All this should be covered in the shoot risk assessment. Shoot organiser is responsible usually. No keeper will mind having you in his woods from Feb 2 through to early May, birds generally only use the outside 30 yards.

 

 

A