any old oil

[spudulike]

The saw is a 346XP, tuned correctly it will be at the high end of 13k rpm and tipping 14k rpm, I wouldn't risk it with one of these high revving saws. An old 70s saw may be a different option as they only hit 10 - 11.5k rpm.

A new cylinder and piston for a 346XP is £250 just for parts!!

[GardenKit]

The problem with classifications is that not all manufacturers make them easy to find, and very few users actually know what to look for.

 

I have just checked my Quicksilver Premium Outboard oil which is only classified as NMMA TC-W3 (no JASO rating) yet. to my surprise is stated as 'multi-use' with little pictures of saws etc.

 

Rock oils however produce oils for outboards with NMMA ratings, and Groundsman oils with JASO FC and API TD rating. Are they the same, in different packaging for different markets? I did not used to think so, but now I wonder.

 

However, one set of information which would confirm my original belief of different formulation, comes from the Aspen oil company.

As you know they produce the Aspen2T fuel, an alkylate fuel mixed at 2% with their own Aspen 2 stroke to JASO FC spec, for horticultural machines.

 

They do however, state in no uncertain terms NOT to use it in 2 stroke outboards, but to use Aspen 4 stroke alkylate fuel and mix it yourself with their marine 2 stroke oil. this hints that the oils are indeed different.

 

I still think that if anyone is in doubt, its best to use a branded Horticultural oil rather than risk using the incorrect stuff.

 

Interestingly you mention Stihl HP Ultra which is JASO FB, ISO-L-EGB fully synthetic at £23.50 ltr inc vat RRP.

 

Their HP super semi synthetic which is cheaper at £10.75 and appears to be slightly inferior to Ultra, is actually rated at JASO-FD, ISO-l-EGD.

 

I must be missing something here?

[Pedroski]

<snip>

 

Interestingly you mention Stihl HP Ultra which is JASO FB, ISO-L-EGB fully synthetic at £23.50 ltr inc vat RRP.

 

Their HP super semi synthetic which is cheaper at £10.75 and appears to be slightly inferior to Ultra, is actually rated at JASO-FD, ISO-l-EGD.

 

I must be missing something here?

 

 

What they are doing is exploiting the "green" image - it's their biodegradable one, so they charge double for it. This is something that Motul don't do.

[Graham]

Interesting. I found this Choosing an Oil for Two-cycle Engines

[Pedroski]

The saw is a 346XP, tuned correctly it will be at the high end of 13k rpm and tipping 14k rpm, I wouldn't risk it with one of these high revving saws. An old 70s saw may be a different option as they only hit 10 - 11.5k rpm.

A new cylinder and piston for a 346XP is £250 just for parts!!

 

I know you know these saws inside out, but you're getting more more oil to the bearings at the higher rpm anyway being carried there by the fuel. And max power is below 10k. A JASO FC/ API TC oil is good for 2 stroke race bikes running with max power of close on 50hp produced at over 13k (like the KTM RC125), so where's the issue with a few hp at 10k and max rpm of 13k?

[GardenKit]

Interesting. I found this Choosing an Oil for Two-cycle Engines

Very informative Graham, many thanks. It seems that it is better to use specific rather than multi-use oils. This has always been my belief.

 

But my theories regarding temperatures of air cooled versus water cooled engines have been wrong. I always thought water cooled ran cooler.

 

So thanks, I have learnt something already today, and the day is young.

[Pedroski]

Very informative Graham, many thanks. It seems that it is better to use specific rather than multi-use oils. This has always been my belief.

 

 

That's the thing.... a good API TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD does meet the specific requirements of high performance, fast revving, 2 stroke engines, so it is a specific oil. If someone wants to believe that a Stihl engine is somehow different from another high performance 2 stroke engine, and therefore requires special Stihl oil at a much higher price, well..... Heaven forbid someone should go and run a Stihl chainsaw on Husqvarna branded oil, or vice versa.

[Rob D]

the stihl oil shots are about £15 for 10, which will do you 50l of oil, thats hardly expensive.

 

 

Exactly why bother looking to use a cheaper alternative when it's cheap anyway?

[GardenKit]

That's the thing.... a good API TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD does meet the specific requirements of high performance, fast revving, 2 stroke engines, so it is a specific oil. If someone wants to believe that a Stihl engine is somehow different from another high performance 2 stroke engine, and therefore requires special Stihl oil at a much higher price, well..... Heaven forbid someone should go and run a Stihl chainsaw on Husqvarna branded oil, or vice versa.

I'm not advocating that, I am perfectly happy using, and selling Rock Groundsman in all the machines that I sell and service (except that I now use Aspen2t pre mix wherever possible.

 

My reference to specific oil was aimed at marine v horticultural, as per OP. Not worried about 'brand' names as long as they meet or exceed spec.

[Pedroski]

Exactly why bother looking to use a cheaper alternative when it's cheap anyway?

 

That's Stihl's cheapest oil, HP, sold for a higher price than higher spec'd oils. It's not a case of looking for a cheaper alternative, but rather not paying an inflated price for something inferior.