The amazon- unnatural histories!

[MikeTM150]

I think we can all agree that the real problem with the human/enviroment balance is huge human population that is increasing still exponentionally with very little control.

 

Personally i believe we will become, or already have become the makers of our demise! Not just because of the poor enviromental effect we have on our own ecosystem as a human species but also the health problems associated with a population expanding at an exponential rate. Science can only take us so far at a given speed, the speed its developing maybe exponential but there are limits to which it can sustain the current human population explosion.

 

I think the program demonstrates the complexity of the relationships that exisit between a species and its enviroment and the effect of outside sources upon that species. For example, they discuss that at one time there was a large popultion of amazonians living in an area of deforestation, however i think its fair to agree that this would have been a much slower growth curve to the populations growth and to effeciency at deforestation. This slower curve would have given more time for ecosystems to change and adapt to the new enviroment and for the population to adapt to their changing environment, and therefore not causing such a detrimental effect on the enviroment.

 

In reality, I believe the human species is setting its own course for it own demise at some point in the future, and the only real effect we can have on our own ecosystem is to slow the population growth down. Otherwise we will further increase the gap between those who can afford a varied and wide ranging healthy diet, and those who are forced to survive on nothing more than the bare minimum. We are now a global species effecting every corner of the earth.

 

Sorry its so long but i, as a farmer feel very strongly about the way our global environment is expected to produce food and energy whilst supporting a natural wildlife ecosystems all at the same time. It cannot do it all for the ever increasing population!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I think we can all agree that the real problem with the human/enviroment balance is huge human population that is increasing still exponentionally with very little control.

 

Personally i believe we will become, or already have become the makers of our demise! Not just because of the poor enviromental effect we have on our own ecosystem as a human species but also the health problems associated with a population expanding at an exponential rate. Science can only take us so far at a given speed, the speed its developing maybe exponential but there are limits to which it can sustain the current human population explosion.

 

I think the program demonstrates the complexity of the relationships that exisit between a species and its enviroment and the effect of outside sources upon that species. For example, they discuss that at one time there was a large popultion of amazonians living in an area of deforestation, however i think its fair to agree that this would have been a much slower growth curve to the populations growth and to effeciency at deforestation. This slower curve would have given more time for ecosystems to change and adapt to the new enviroment and for the population to adapt to their changing environment, and therefore not causing such a detrimental effect on the enviroment.

 

In reality, I believe the human species is setting its own course for it own demise at some point in the future, and the only real effect we can have on our own ecosystem is to slow the population growth down. Otherwise we will further increase the gap between those who can afford a varied and wide ranging healthy diet, and those who are forced to survive on nothing more than the bare minimum. We are now a global species effecting every corner of the earth.

 

Sorry its so long but i, as a farmer feel very strongly about the way our global environment is expected to produce food and energy whilst supporting a natural wildlife ecosystems all at the same time. It cannot do it all for the ever increasing population!

 

 

there are systems of production that will provide what we need more sustainably BUT we must stop the population exploding NOW.

[MikeTM150]

there are systems of production that will provide what we need more sustainably BUT we must stop the population exploding NOW.

 

Now thats a seriously difficult problem, china have tried but i'm not sure you could say they've found the ultimate answer. I could get rid of a few of our population with a shotgun and it'd be no more than they deserved in my opinion.

 

We farm organically, and the likes of the soil association (whom i don't certify with!) who claim organic could feed the current population are barking mad. it would leave so much land unviable to food production the level of food production would be well below what is currently required. I wouldn't dispute if we could save 75% of the food wasted every year we would undoubtably be in a better position to reduce the gap between unsustainable food production and feeding the population!

[David Goss]

5 million plus peoples in the river basin.

 

greater London 8,278,251

[skyhuck]

Ahh, but even the program made the point that the indigenous Amozonian peoples could only support a limited sized community. Once the community became too large, the patch of jungle in which they lived was no longer able to sustain them. the earth became exhausted, and bush meat became scare.

 

 

Did you watch all of the program???

 

It actually made the point that thats what people used to think.

 

But they now know that the people living there increased the fertility of the land making it able to sustain more people not less.

 

They estimate a population of 5.5M at one time!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It was the introduction of decease, slavery and other things from the more developed (very subjective term) that caused the decimation of the population, not the forests inability to support the numbers.

Edited January 22, 2012 by skyhuck

[skyhuck]

I don't think its human population thats the real problem.

 

Its technology thats the problem.

 

The amount of energy each individual in the developed world uses is crazy.

[gibbon]

I don't think its human population thats the real problem.

 

Its technology thats the problem.

 

The amount of energy each individual in the developed world uses is crazy.

 

As is the suffering in the under developed world caused by our consuming of their resources and energy

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

As is the suffering in the under developed world caused by our consuming of their resources and energy

 

when I learned the facts behind statements like that I was appalled, western society could do with looking to change its mentality.

[face cord]

Sometimes I wonder if Mad Max is actually a film that depicts a realistic future scenario.

 

Modern society is built on a abudance of non renewable fossil fuels & other resources that are going to get increasing more expensive & uneconomical to extract. Question is can there be a smooth transition away from them without a collapse or was malthus right after all?

 

What population can the world support without any oil based fertillizer boosting crop yields or the extraction of fossilized water from aquifers.....

[Amelanchier]

Well I disagree with all the nostalgia for an era that one of us lived through. Life today for your average human is better now than it has ever been. We are fortunate to have less disease, less war, less murder, less rape, less slavery, less torture, more education, more suffrage, less child abuse, greater personal incomes and greater personal autonomy; though I would concede that the overall level of moaning about the world has probably been maintained.

 

Don't get too carried away dreaming of the idyllic lifestyle of an ancient amazonian - life was short (I suspect 40 years would be positively venerable), limited (frogs for dinner again?), parochial (no arbtalk!), drowned in superstition (do what the witchdoctor says...) and involved endless intertribal wars, skirmishes, murders and fights. Harmony indeed.