what to plant for coppice?

[coppiceer]

wow, never thought this would generate so much discussion:thumbup:

 

from what i can make of what you lot are saying is, plant a bit of everything, cut it down when its ready and plonk it on the fire!!!

 

But i do have some serious concerns over deer, i like to think most end up in the wife's aga with a bed of red wine but in reality i'm sure there's some that like to nibble! Is deer fencing the only way of 100% keeping them out and will they always be a problem eating regrowth when i coppice it?

 

so syc/ash/robinia and some euc if i can find a suitable variety?

 

Without deer fencing you will never have sustainable coppice regrowth. If you have badgers in your area then you must seek specialist advice about making the fencing badger-proof. Personally I would forget the whole idea.

[treedave]

Without deer fencing you will never have sustainable coppice regrowth. If you have badgers in your area then you must seek specialist advice about making the fencing badger-proof. Personally I would forget the whole idea.

 

There's fencing and there's fencing. I've be using temp deer fencing with some good results, this is often combined with "active" control, aka shooting & eating. Works well with the smaller species but big red will get in if he wants to. Once the regrowth is above brows height the fence comes out and is used elsewhere. Not sure what the issue with badgers is, can you enlighten me as to the issues with mr Brock?

[kernowstu]

Without deer fencing you will never have sustainable coppice regrowth. If you have badgers in your area then you must seek specialist advice about making the fencing badger-proof. Personally I would forget the whole idea.

 

rubbish look at the large estates in west sussex

[MikeTM150]

Um, badgers.....not my favourite topic but lets no go down that route here, other than there general destructive nature i'm guessing u reckon they'll trash the new shoots that grow up after coppice and dig around the stools damaging the stools?

 

Deer fencing isn't going to be cheap, i'm guessing £10/meter?

 

Also i'm wondering what the future is gonna hold when its grown up into nice sized stands and i start chopping them down, are the greenies going to get their knickers in a twist? We do suffer with the london greenies who come to the country for the 'good' life but don't have a clue how we do things......oh yeah and shock horror u find big farm machinery on rural roads........:001_huh:

[Daniël Bos]

You guys never seen a badger with a billhook?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't either!

 

Sorry, I'll get my coat...

[muldonach]

Um, badgers.....not my favourite topic but lets no go down that route here, other than there general destructive nature i'm guessing u reckon they'll trash the new shoots that grow up after coppice and dig around the stools damaging the stools?

 

Deer fencing isn't going to be cheap, i'm guessing £10/meter?

 

Also i'm wondering what the future is gonna hold when its grown up into nice sized stands and i start chopping them down, are the greenies going to get their knickers in a twist? We do suffer with the london greenies who come to the country for the 'good' life but don't have a clue how we do things......oh yeah and shock horror u find big farm machinery on rural roads........:001_huh:

 

It really comes down to how big an area you are talking about planting - if it is just an acre or two then you will probably really struggle to get the trees established without fencing (£ 10/meter should not be far away), if it is a bigger area then fencing it gets expensive, worth bearing in mind that it is really difficult to fence deer out long term, the small species will squeeze through gaps that a lamb would shy away from and the bigger ones can jump a fair height as well. It also depends to an extent on both tree and deer species. Alder for example is not a favoured browse, willow very much is as is norway spruce so you could consider planting sacrificial clumps, especially if you are interested in active control, similarly if you do not want to spend the money to fence then you must make provision to be able to see and shoot deer

 

There is an alternative to deer fencing which you can consider, advocated by a few of the old forestry school who have thought things through for themselves but about 180 degrees away from conventional practice as presently taught.

 

Plant the trees in rows as normal, tube and stake if possible using appropriate tubes for the deer species present. Conventional maintenance would now be to spray with glyphosate to leave a clear circle around the base of the plant about a meter in dia. Don't do that.

 

Use a small tractor and mower to mow between the rows, leave the trees to fight their own way up. By doing this you make natural roadways between the rows with browse / grazing of various ages and heights easily accessible on either side, the trees are initially out of sight and difficult to reach, by the time that changes they are well established.

 

If you weed around the tree either manually or chemically you create exactly the opposite effect and isolate the trees in readily accessible areas.

 

Never heard of badgers as being a problem in tree establishment, apart from making holes under or through fences which bambi then adopts.

 

As for the green knickered brigade - coppice is totally sustainable and properly maintained and carried out makes a wildlife heaven - a variety of differing age habitats on a more or less constant cycle, plenty of variety in light levels and regular top ups of lop and top to keep lots of lovely bugs growing for birds, as well as varying degrees of "bottom" for ground nesting birds and butterflies.

 

A small varied woodland is a (very) worthwhile addition to any farm. You may have a bit of a struggle to get it away but once established it will be fine.

 

As far as firewood production goes my vote is for alder/ash/sycamore all grow well, coppice easily and make good firewood, put a few rowans and elders along the edges as well.

 

Cheers

mac

[MikeTM150]

Mac

 

Many thanks for those thoughts, i think ur right with the deer problem being a ongoing problem with coppicing. One that i hadn't really thought of!

 

Think i'm going to have to think a bit harder about the cost of this because deer fencing for 6 acres is going to be cheap!!

 

Good job deer taste good otherwise i'd put them in the badger (even the ones with a billock!) pain in the arse bracket!

[Crazy Cutter]

Deer i went back to the way they used to do it. I used the grant money to fund a 360 to bank and ditch the woods, you will be surprised how much a good driver will do in a day. I have also planted a hedge on top which will be laid at first coppice. Fencing is getting quite costly now and softwood posts seem to rot off within 5-6 years. Something more drastic was required. If the price of wood keeps rising then in the long term this form of deer control will pay for itself.

[muldonach]

Deer i went back to the way they used to do it. I used the grant money to fund a 360 to bank and ditch the woods, you will be surprised how much a good driver will do in a day. I have also planted a hedge on top which will be laid at first coppice. Fencing is getting quite costly now and softwood posts seem to rot off within 5-6 years. Something more drastic was required. If the price of wood keeps rising then in the long term this form of deer control will pay for itself.

 

I would like to see a photo of what you have done, I cannot envisage any banking or ditch forming much of an obstacle to deer but am more than happy to be educated.

 

Cheers

mac

[Crazy Cutter]

I would like to see a photo of what you have done, I cannot envisage any banking or ditch forming much of an obstacle to deer but am more than happy to be educated.

 

Cheers

mac

 

Must ancient woodland in England had a bank and ditch to stop deer and theft of the coppice product. I don't know about Scotland? It was in the cutters contract to repair the bank and ditch and lay the hedge or use brash hedges if necessary. We didn't have muntjac then but this was enough to stop red,roe and fallow.

 

Where i have got the hedge and bank working its enough to stop them, whilst muntjac are shot. It's hard enough to type let alone download photo's but i'll give it a go when i'm next over there!!