Freelance Climber Needed

[Rupe]

tony,

 

get some its not that much ,if only doing jobs here & ther ,

 

Dont be daft, he's employed!!! The last thing he needs is to be paying insurance!

 

Sorry Tony, I am sure you can speak for yourself!

[woody1]

Well said, and if during the first hour you think he is not safe then you sack him there and then, or sort it out, its called management.

 

Fair comment, but in the real world, unless you're standing watching him every second, it doesn't work like that. Therefore, they should have insurance. Tickets don't mean you can do a job. Its easy to be judgemental, management involves a hell of a lot more than hiring n firing, my situation was dealt with as i felt was appropriate.

[Johny Walker]

Dont be daft, he's employed!!! The last thing he needs is to be paying insurance!

 

Sorry Tony, I am sure you can speak for yourself!

 

tony has openly said he is looking for some free lance work ,so he would be self employed,as he would not be working for the co that pays his stamp & tax .

 

correct me if im wrong tony

[woody1]

tony,

 

get some its not that much ,if only doing jobs here & ther ,

 

Its peace of mind should anything happen, employed or not if there's a weekend cash job to be done at least you're covered should anything go wrong. It's not expensive, far less expensive than if you needed it and didn't have it. Think of it like car insurance!

[Rupe]

What real world? The one that you took your insurance policy out for?

 

I'm sure you sorted it out in the correct manor, but yes you do need to stand and watch them to start with, until you know someone is trustworthy and up to your standards. Then when you are confident you should be able to leave them to it, and if they screw up when you are away then thats called an accident and your insurance has to cover it.

 

If you think they were cutting corners or didn't listen to your instructions then you dont use them again but you cannot pass the buck. If you leave site then that is your choice, you are still responsible for what goes on on your jobs. That is all part of management.

 

In the real world YOU take real responsibilty for what happens. Using a freelancers insurance because you weren't there, or because you didn't supervise, or leave a supervisor is an imaginery world that does not exist, hence the reason for this entire thread.

[woody1]

What real world? The one that you took your insurance policy out for?

 

I'm sure you sorted it out in the correct manor, but yes you do need to stand and watch them to start with, until you know someone is trustworthy and up to your standards. Then when you are confident you should be able to leave them to it, and if they screw up when you are away then thats called an accident and your insurance has to cover it.

 

If you think they were cutting corners or didn't listen to your instructions then you dont use them again but you cannot pass the buck. If you leave site then that is your choice, you are still responsible for what goes on on your jobs. That is all part of management.

 

In the real world YOU take real responsibilty for what happens. Using a freelancers insurance because you weren't there, or because you didn't supervise, or leave a supervisor is an imaginery world that does not exist, hence the reason for this entire thread.

 

I totally see where you're coming from, i agree, in the most part of it, but this thread should be carried on elsewhere, Chris's vacancy has been trashed by us all! Maybe i came across wrong, i still think that self employed should have their own insurance.

 

Incidently, i dont and wouldnt use the bloke again, maybe its 'more fool me' for giving someone some work and taking their 'so called' experience at face value. Guess i'll live n learn!

[Rupe]

Yep, live and learn, you did right by getting rid. And I totally agree this should be discussed elsewhere and the thread has been trashed, not my intention but i cant help myself sometimes!!

 

We have discussed this elsewhere before but it keeps coming up again and I personally think its important to keep jumping on it. Even if its a genuine mistake or misunderstanding from folk wanting to employ freelancers that they should have insurance, its worth having these discussions to show that the responsibilty must remain with the company doing the work, unless fully sub contracted out, but even then you need cover that includes sub contracting out.

 

We all need insurance (not by law but morally it is correct) but only one to be used on each work site and thats the one belonging to the person who is hired by the client.

[woody1]

Still sounds like a bloody minefield! Open to interpretation, i reckon its needs to be put plainly in black n white by the insurers!

[Rupe]

I agree!! I have spoken to insurers and I'm pretty sure I get it! Hence my posts are not random winging (believe it or not). It almost is black and white. The company carrying out the work for the client is responsible for all third part claims ( PL ) arrising from that job.

 

I think its the EL bit thats more complicated, where a worker is injured. But where companies are asking for freelancers to have their own insurance, this is not EL they are talking about anyway, its PL. And that is whats wrong and unecessary. Its not the law to have PL anyway, so no point in two people having it.

 

It IS the law to have EL when employing, and in the eyes of the law bringing in self employed "freelancers" is employing, its labour only employment, so the law is very clear you must have EL to cover them.

 

I could almost understand it if companies were asking freelancers to have their own personal accident insurance, so as to ensure that the companies EL was not used in the event of the freelancer tripping over his own feet! But this is not what companies are asking for, they are askign for PL so they dont have to take responsibilites! ANd this is wrong IMO.

[Mark Bolam]

You've just summed it up nicely Rupe.

 

Mind you, insurance co.'s must love freelancers spending a few hundred quid on their own PL which they will never have to pay out on, so probably like the waters fairly muddy!

 

Sorry for the derail Chris. Hope you find a good 'un.