Buying woodland

[davetaz]

Hi - Thanks for the link.

 

That wood is very local and is a stunning beech wood on limestone.

 

My concerns are that it is expensive: 65K for 11 acres.

 

Does that sound a lot to people? My feeling is that for a bit more money (100K) I should expect a lot more wood.

 

It also has a restrictive covenant that I don't like.

 

The whole wood used to be owned by the Forestry Commission but was sold off to woodlands.co.uk and broken up into little chunks. It's all locked gates and keep out signs now. Maybe a taste of things to come if the FC break up goes ahead in England.

 

Hi mate, this wood was in private ownership for about 15-20 years and has been sold on via woods4sale (- completely independent from woodlands.co.uk) based in Bangor. The previous owners have split it and sold it on - it's where our 21 acres is. Although you are right that it was under FC management for a good while before that. The one in the link is higher priced as it is freehold - all the other pieces were sold off as leasehold - but we have been given the chance to buy the lease if we want to, but at £450/acre can't afford it at the moment. As far as covenants go we haven't had any issues. as they don't prevent us from doing what we want/need to.

The gates have always been locked as it was used for game shooting for a number of years and there have been a number of occassions when things have gone missing etc.

As far as expensive goes, woodland prices have rocketed in the last few years and are likely to continue to do so - buy one ASAP!

[renewablejohn]

The sort of lease I am talking about would need to cost substantially less than the sale value to make any sense.

 

There is no reason why a leaseholder shouldn't be the one making the decisions either - it would depend on the lease.

 

 

I am not convinced how a lease would work. I have looked at a 150 year lease for a 350 acre wood for a cost of £1000 per acre which seems good value. So there must be a catch.?? Am I being to cautious. ??

 

Equivalent freehold value would be approx £5000 per acre around here

Edited February 7, 2011 by renewablejohn

[Ty Unnos]

Hi.

 

Thanks for the information about Freedom Wood. Looks like I had my facts mixed up a bit!

 

Can I ask if you use your 21 acres as part of your firewood business?

 

I presumed that as smaller woods go for a premium it would make it uneconomical to try and use them as part of a business. Do you have other similar sized woods which all contribute firewood?

[davetaz]

we only take timber for our own use from the wood to keep within felling regs

(5 cubic metres per calendar quarter)

All the timber for the firewood business is bought in apart from 3T pine that we take from the wood every year to convert in to kindling.

The smaller the wood the pricier they are per acre, depending on tree species growing. You may find 100 acres sitka much cheaper than 50 acres Beech - although the chance of finding decent acreage of hardwood forest/woodland is pretty slim

You are welcome to visit our wood some time if you wish!

[john k]

That wood is very local and is a stunning beech wood on limestone.

 

My concerns are that it is expensive: 65K for 11 acres.

It does look like a fantastic place, but lovely as it is would a beech wood actually provide what you want? It's going to be much less versatile than something more mixed, and won't give the opportunity for coppicing unless you clear fell some of it. Assuming that's even practical.

 

It's not cheap, but none of these re-sold small woods are. It will probably find a buyer though. If you can afford it, and want it as somewhere lovely to get your firewood from then it might be worth considering [1]. I wouldn't have thought that it will provide the amount of work you want, or the returns.

 

I'm no expert, so I'd be interested to hear what other people think.

 

[1] I've found myself wondering whether biting the bullet and buying one of these woods might be the pragmatic answer, but above all I get the feeling that I would feel like I had been mugged which would take away a lot of the pleasure of ownership!

[john k]

I am not convinced how a lease would work. I have looked at a 150 year lease for a 350 acre wood for a cost of £1000 per acre which seems good value. So there must be a catch.?? Am I being to cautious. ??

I would be really happy to buy 20 or 30 acres leasehold at £1000 an acre. In fact providing it was in the right area and there wasn't something badly wrong with the place I'd jump at it.

 

I can't afford 350 acres though, and it's more than I'd want. To take on anything that size would need to be a full scale business, with a very careful business plan - it would need some substantial investors or borrowed money. Leasehold would make that all more complicated, as the land itself would be much less of an investment.

 

So the catch is that you'll need £350,000 to buy something that in the long term will be diminishing in value (although in the short to medium term it could conceivably appreciate). There may also be other catches in the lease of course.

Edited February 8, 2011 by john k

[Ty Unnos]

It does look like a fantastic place, but lovely as it is would a beech wood actually provide what you want? It's going to be much less versatile than something more mixed, and won't give the opportunity for coppicing unless you clear fell some of it. Assuming that's even practical.

 

It's not cheap, but none of these re-sold small woods are. It will probably find a buyer though. If you can afford it, and want it as somewhere lovely to get your firewood from then it might be worth considering [1]. I wouldn't have thought that it will provide the amount of work you want, or the returns.

 

I'm no expert, so I'd be interested to hear what other people think.

 

[1] I've found myself wondering whether biting the bullet and buying one of these woods might be the pragmatic answer, but above all I get the feeling that I would feel like I had been mugged which would take away a lot of the pleasure of ownership!

 

Hi John

 

I share your thoughts - I would love to own a wood as stunning as the beech wood but am not sure it is practical. I really do want a working wood. I think what I am probably after is something a bit more mixed. Maybe a small block of conifer with some broadleaf mixed in? I could slowly clear the conifers and get some coppice going. Or even some naturally regenerated broadleaf. Either way some thing that was less pretty but cheaper!

 

I would love some sweet chestnut coppice but that seems fairly rare in North Wales.