the body language of Decay, The Delights of D

[bjam1964]

If Honey fungus was responsible for killing a tree, you have to tell the client Honey fungus killed the tree, surely thats the nature of the relationship between A. mellea and the tree in question?

 

Perhaps the honey fungus just took advantage of an already environmentally or physically stressed tree? The honey fungus cleaned the mess up adventitiously but did not kill the tree - just took advantage . . .

[Xerxses]

Thanks Hama, BatiArb, Bundle2....and everyone else for taking your time to share your knowledge on this subject.

 

I hold the theoretical knowledge high, but also need to "see for myself" to fully understand a subject. I really appreciate the way its presented here, years and years of hands on experience put down in plain text to describe the findings you gathered.

 

Please dont go "scientific" just to prove your point. I believe in plain language with a strong message!

Over the years I have met some great people with this power....

I dont mean to namedrop but I can mention two people who both had the ability to put complex things into simple words and inspire people around them.

Desmond Tutu, whom I had the pleasure to meet 1987, truly changed my way of thinking and Lisbeth Palme (widow of former Priminister Olof Palme) who accompanied me on a walk, on her beloved Island, and opened my mind to nature.

 

Sorry for derailing....

 

What I´m trying to say is; This is a very complex subject and I think, to reach out to the arbworld, it needs to be addressed in a "as simple as possibly" language.

If you can explain something so that everyone understand, then you fully understand yourself!

 

If the "Arbworld" accepts this knowledge, I´m convinced the "Scientific"-world will have to agree...

Edited November 19, 2010 by Xerxses

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

If Honey fungus was responsible for killing a tree, you have to tell the client Honey fungus killed the tree, surely thats the nature of the relationship between A. mellea and the tree in question?

 

I know trees that have lived with honey fungus for at least a decade, Honey is an important fungi, probably one of the key ones in the forest eco system.

 

But not nearly as "toxic" or "parasitic" as we are lead to believe.

 

It fills my heart with dread when folk on hearing mention of the mellea, the first words that exit thier mouths "should i steralise the ground with armilatox"

 

NO!

 

It is ubiquotos in the soild, its pressence is mearly a blip in the life cycle of nature, and a much needed and nessesary "garbage disposer" learn to love the Armillarias, like you would kim and aggy!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Thanks Hama, BatiArb, Bundle2....and everyone else for taking your time to share your knowledge on this subject.

 

I hold the theoretical knowledge high, but also need to "see for myself" to fully understand a subject. I really appreciate the way its presented here, years and years of hands on experience put down in plain text to describe the findings you gathered.

 

Please dont go "scientific" just to prove your point. I believe in plain language with a strong message!

Over the years I have met some great people with this power....

I dont mean to namedrop but I can mention two people who both had the ability to put complex things into simple words and inspire people around them.

Desmond Tutu, whom I had the pleasure to meet 1987, truly changed my way of thinking and Lisbeth Palme (widow of former Priminister Olof Palme) who accompanied me on a walk, on her beloved Island, and opened my mind to nature.

 

Sorry for derailing....

 

What I´m trying to say is; This is a very complex subject and I think, to reach out to the arbworld, it needs to be addressed in a "as simple as possibly" language.

If you can explain something so that everyone understand, then you fully understand yourself!

 

If the "Arbworld" accepts this knowledge, I´m convinced the "Scientific"-world will have to agree...

 

The truth is out there.... i seek it... that is what it is to be scientificly minded, but what use is discovery if not to share it with others and in order to share it with others it has to be proven, and theres a minefield of hurdles to jump in that, and long overdue i learnt to jump.

 

but me being me, i will still twist the rules and play the game with a hama twist!

[bjam1964]

but me being me, i will still twist the rules and play the game with a hama twist!

 

Is that a type of cocktail - can we have the recipe?

[BatiArb]

Perhaps the honey fungus just took advantage of an already environmentally or physically stressed tree? The honey fungus cleaned the mess up adventitiously but did not kill the tree - just took advantage . . .

 

You beat me to it.....

 

The doctors do not blame the common cold or gum disease for killing thousands of people, yet the infections are present at the time of death of almost everyone.

 

Honey fungus is no different in the tree world. It is almost inevitable that it will be present somewhere when a tree dies.

 

However, that is absolutely no reason to blame it for the death of the tree.

 

The tree almost certainly started dying years ago when honey fungus was no where to be seen.

 

 

.

 

 

I know trees that have lived with honey fungus for at least a decade, Honey is an important fungi, probably one of the key ones in the forest eco system.

 

But not nearly as "toxic" or "parasitic" as we are lead to believe.

 

It fills my heart with dread when folk on hearing mention of the mellea, the first words that exit thier mouths "should i steralise the ground with armilatox"

 

NO!

 

It is ubiquotos in the soild, its pressence is mearly a blip in the life cycle of nature, and a much needed and nessesary "garbage disposer" learn to love the Armillarias, like you would kim and aggy!

 

 

 

I totally agree and I love the analogies lol:lol:

 

 

 

.

[scotspine1]

 

Honey fungus is no different in the tree world. It is almost inevitable that it will be present somewhere when a tree dies.

 

However, that is absolutely no reason to blame it for the death of the tree.

 

yet we know A. mellea causes xylem dysfunction and degrades the cellulose which can and often does lead to root or lower stem fracture

 

A. mellea is a known pathogen of trees, so for example I will tell my client the reason the tree failed was due to A. mellea if i find evidence that was the case. So that was the relationship between A. mellea and my client's tree....case closed.

 

What is there to discuss? the parasitic nature of A. mellea caused my client's tree to fail.

[BatiArb]

yet we know A. mellea causes xylem dysfunction and degrades the cellulose which can and often does lead to root or lower stem fracture

 

How do you know this for certain ?

 

A. mellea is a known pathogen of trees, so for example I will tell my client the reason the tree failed was due to A. mellea if i find evidence that was the case. So that was the relationship between A. mellea and my client's tree....case closed.

 

What is there to discuss? the parasitic nature of A. mellea caused my client's tree to fail.

 

 

This is absolutely NOT the open and shut (black and white) case that you present in this situation !!!!!

 

I am not doubting the fact that A mellea was present at the time the tree failed, but to say it was ultimately and solely responsible for that failure is quite simply wrong.

 

 

.

 

I consider it incredibly important that we ovoid statements that allow no space for an improved understanding of the situation.

 

There was once a time when we considered all fungi to be diseases. Now we know that only a minority actually are. Parasitic fungi are not parasitic for all of their life cycle. Therefore should we actually be referring to them as parasites?

 

I would suggest that they are simply fungi operating in a parasitic mode at that point in time or stage of their life cycle.

 

What we as arborists need to understand it the conditions that occur within the fungal tree relationship that lead to the fungus operating in a parasitic mode. Or at least what we perceive to be a parasitic mode of decay.

 

 

 

As I said the important thing is to be aware that we need to describe of everything as it appears to us, with a respectful understanding that someone else is going to perceive things differently and we are never going to know who is truly 'right'.

 

The wise man lives life with an open mind, without attachment to his own ideas and perspectives, totally prepared to be proven wrong at any minute and have his life's work disproven by someone who's thinking outside the box.....

.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Think of armillaria as a symptom of general ill health/low vitality, THAT is the cause of the demise, the armilaria was just the reeper of an already wounded organism. The reasons are many and varied, but mellea is just taking advantage of sliding doors

[scotspine1]

How do you know this for certain ?

 

 

Just going by what Lonsdale and Butin have said, that'll do for me at present when dealing with current clients.

 

This is absolutely NOT the open and shut (black and white) case that you present in this situation !!!!!

 

 

If A. mellea degrades the structure of the wood leading to a fracture causing the tree to fail, then its safe to assume the diseased tree fell due to being infested with the pathogen - A. mellea.

 

 

I am not doubting the fact that A mellea was present at the time the tree failed, but to say it was ultimately and solely responsible for that failure is quite simply wrong.

.

 

I never said it was solely responsible but you're correct when you say I implied it was ultimately responsible.