bs:5837, how to go about it?

[sloth]

Hi all, new here and looking for a little advice/insight into how you may go about 5837 work.

I understand that the best way would be to survey and plot on something like autocad or arborcad. But is it feasible in a work based situation to ask a client for a paper copy of the land survey and to plot it on that instead?

Also, if I had autocad software and was given a copy of the land survey would it come with tree positions plotted on it, or is this something I would need to do myself when doing a schedule?

Sorry if I sound clueless, but learning about 5837 with a view to understanding the standard and passing an exam, doesn't really set me up to know how a real life work situation would go; what order things actually proceed in, and what is expected by who etc. Eg, the standard says the survey should be done prior to building layout design etc, however in my experience this is rarely the case!

Any advice gratefully received, many thanks

[Ben90]

I recommend that you get all the information you can about a site before you start. Call the council planning office and ask, they may have some maps and tree sheets from previous surveys/works and it can make life a lot easier. I've yet to teach myself a cad program but if you can scan in a copy of a blank scale map then you have a great basis to start from. If that were the case I would also erase the trees from the map if they were there and draw them all again, to allow for increased spread, past removals and such.

 

Indeed, the survey should come before the building layout, but most developers, including the last ones we did a survey for shoot themselves in the foot by assuming they can clear-fell the area, put their ridiculous building in leaving no growing space (if any) for the remaining trees (if any) that he/she has kindly left on the very edge of the site, and then expect us to get them planning.

 

They even insisted we carry around a copy of their map of the basic building design, probably to hint at what trees they want gone! You just have to remain totally unbiased throughout.

 

I'm in the same boat as you really. This advice is just what I've experienced with bs5837 surveys that I did with somebody else, I've still got a lot to learn about them, but I hope it helps.

[Paul Barton]

Definitely ask for a copy of the land survey topographical map. This should have trees accurately plotted on it - although often some are missing.

 

You can use a paper copy just fine if you don't use CAD. If you have a scale rule and some coloured pens you can produce a nice tree constraints/protection plan.

 

If the job is for a small extension on a domestic property, often the home owner won't want to pay for a topo. In these cases I purchase an OS map tile from an online retailer, and then triangulate the tree positions on site using a laser/tape measure. It's pretty time consuming though so up your quote if you are doing that!

 

And of course the key to successfully implementing a BS5837 report is on-site supervision. You can draw the best tree protection plan in the world and still have it ignored!

[arb culture]

What Paul says is good.

 

Sorry to de-rail a little bit, but do you have any ideas on how to ensure good on site supervision Paul. I've always found it to be a problem, and unless the planners condition it, I know most sites go unsupervised.

[Paul Barton]

What Paul says is good.

 

Sorry to de-rail a little bit, but do you have any ideas on how to ensure good on site supervision Paul. I've always found it to be a problem, and unless the planners condition it, I know most sites go unsupervised.

 

Unfortunately not! As you say, there is a need for planners to condition it. Apart from that I just recommend it in the report and then try and keep abreast of what is happening, but it's almost impossible (and not profitable) to keep an eye out for every site you have looked at.

[arb culture]

Unfortunately not! As you say, there is a need for planners to condition it. Apart from that I just recommend it in the report and then try and keep abreast of what is happening, but it's almost impossible (and not profitable) to keep an eye out for every site you have looked at.

 

I think we deal with it in a similar way then. It can be frustrating sometimes though. Oh well, chin up and carry on...

[sloth]

Thanks for the replies folks, helps a lot

So its entirely possible to do 5837's without a cad programme, that's good to know, as they seem quite expensive. Would the larger developers out there be happy with that, I have an opportunity to maybe squeeze my foot in the door, but don't want to run before I can walk. Starting on smaller scale/domestic sites would be preferable. I've been on the practical tree work side of developments for a while now and seen plenty of TCP's and carried out tree works accordingly (much of which seems pointless or outrageous, but that's just my opinion!) and have only seen cad produced maps.

Other question, if its ok to ask, is how do you price 5837 jobs, without scaring the client off from the start or giving them a nasty surprise after initial works?

Thanks for letting me pick your brains, this seemed like the best site to try!

[Arbgirl]

You mention doing an exam in BS5837

 

I did one last week and it had to all be done on paper so it is possible although much quicker on a computer

 

What exam are you going to do (out of interest as I am nosey)!

 

A developer is going to want a piece of paper to look at at the end of the day - well OK they dont WANT to have to deal with trees but most planners make sure an arb survey is done nowadays....

[janey]

This is something I've been looking into myself of late. One compromise between CAD and sketch maps I'm considering is buying editable site maps (loadsa sites do them quite cheeply) and then using Paint to plot in the trees / RPAs etc.

[slack ma girdle]

Thanks for the replies folks, helps a lot

Other question, if its ok to ask, is how do you price 5837 jobs, without scaring the client off from the start or giving them a nasty surprise after initial works?

Thanks for letting me pick your brains, this seemed like the best site to try!

 

I can not compete with the big boys when it come to large scale developments, as i can not afford the software, and generally their complcated nature makes my head hurt. However for smaller scale development i charge £100 and use the maps that the architect have already drawn up. If the development is then given the green light, i charge an additional £50 to mark up the RPA's etc, and for a couple of site visits when i am passing to make sure that the naughty builder is not abusing the agreed terms.