Advice needed!Very akward, arrogant boss!!!!

[skyhuck]

they wouldnt have the balls to come on hear & comment,thats why ther tree officers ,got some thing to hide behind ,+ most failed in tree work & couldnt cut the mustard

 

Not in my experience!!

 

I have met some very knowledgeable TO's.

[treequip]

If you drive a works vehicle, you should walk around it and do a visual check for road worthiness, such as lights and tyres, if you drive it in an unroadworthy condition you could be prosecuted, but I do not believe you are expected to ask to see the MOT or insurance cert. These are things you take on trust and if they are not in place its the boss who is in bother, not you.

 

Driving without insurance is a driver offence. You can check the insurance database on line to see if the vehicle is insured. The database only shows if the vehicle has an insurance policy in place not who it covers

 

ASKMID

 

Not sure where the law would go with this, you can only plead guilty or not guilty. If you weren’t insured the not guilty isn’t an option. The course of action may be to demonstrate to the courts that you had periodically checked to see if the vehicle was insured and hope for an absolute discharge.

[b101uk]

Driving without insurance is a driver offence.

 

Yes

 

Also it is a vehicle owner offence if the owner knowingly lets any driver drive that vehicle without insurance or misrepresents to the driver its insurance status.

 

As an employed driver you are entitled to ask for and be shown insurance documentation to show proof of insurance held by the owner indemnifying the vehicle drivers.

[lendahand]

Are you for real???????????????

 

Please give me one example of an employee who has been prosecuted??? (other than one who's job it was to check)

 

Are you really suggesting that all the members of a tree gang should check that every tree has been cleared for TPO's etc??????????

 

.

 

Well you make part of my point for me, when you say "other than one who's job it was to check"

 

Try this link; A guide to TPO's, it's quite clear, note the word anyone.

 

Tree Preservation Orders: A Guide to the Law and Good Practice - Planning, building and the environment - Communities and Local Government

 

Oh! I should say chapter 10 in the document.

Edited October 10, 2010 by lendahand
More detail

[lendahand]

i was using a car as an example i.e the guy that runs the saw and does the damage is surely liable as they are the one that actually did the damage

Sure the guy on the saw is liable, you are quite right, but the law say's "anyone" involved in cutting a protected tree.

It's normally the owner of the the tree firm or both or anyone involved.

For instance; a passer by helps to pull over the tree with his Landrover, or an employee is given good instructions, but disregards them and he is thinking of leaving the firm anyhow so he cuts TPO trees down by mistake. Both Liable.

[skyhuck]

Well you make part of my point for me, when you say "other than one who's job it was to check"

 

Try this link; A guide to TPO's, it's quite clear, note the word anyone.

 

Tree Preservation Orders: A Guide to the Law and Good Practice - Planning, building and the environment - Communities and Local Government

 

Oh! I should say chapter 10 in the document.

 

Yes and technically you could get done for recording the radio or TV, but you won't.

 

If you are an employee who in good faith carries out instructions in the belief that things are in order, I believe you will not be prosecuted.

 

As I asked before give me just one example of an employee getting prosecuted.

 

Many years ago I was formally cautioned and questioned about a tree I felled that was TPO'd. (turned out it was the LA fault they had not correctly informed all concerned) They at no time asked who was using the saw, or who the other lads on site where, they just wanted me as the Company owner.

[lendahand]

 

As I asked before give me just one example of an employee getting prosecuted.

 

Many years ago I was formally cautioned and questioned about a tree I felled that was TPO'd. (turned out it was the LA fault they had not correctly informed all concerned) They at no time asked who was using the saw, or who the other lads on site where, they just wanted me as the Company owner.

 

..........You!

[skyhuck]

..........You!

 

:confused1:Er no, I have never been an employee in tree work. I have been self employed for the last 24 years.

 

Also I was NOT prosecuted.

Edited October 10, 2010 by skyhuck

[Andy Collins]

If you read the law regarding Tpo's, it clearly states "Anyone, who in contravention of a TPO:

cuts down, uproots or wilfully destroys a tree..." etc, the term "anyone" would be applied in a court of law, and surely it would be down to the prosecution to prove the guilt of the party concerned, far easier to hit the employer and tree owner than a humble employee. But it states "Anyone" so do not assume as an employee you would be safe from conviction.

Here is a link to the law on the matter, so you can make your own minds up. Ch 10 covers the penalties

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/tposguide.pdf

Sorry to repeat lendahands post, but this is quite important, it would not be for us to pick the bones out if things went wrong, but a court of law, personally I have never heard of an employee being prosecuted either.

Interestingly, I know of one company who applied to thin H Chestnut under TPO regs, no problem, but they hadnt applied to install cable bracing (non invasive) and the TO ticked them off because this should have been in the spec on the application, as it altered the dynamics of the tree, funny old world.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Andy Collins

[skyhuck]

This reminds me of the old "if you don't have tickets your insurance won't payout" that people alway quote, but never back up with a single example!!

 

Are people really saying that young lads who are starting out in the industry should be asking the boss to show them the paper work??????????????????

 

Of cause the law states "anyone" other wise people would find ways of getting round the law, but in reality the guy in the wig will be looking for the person who's responsibility it is to get the ducks in a row.

 

I really hate the kind scaremongering, I have removed 1000's of trees where it was not my responsibility to check for TPO's and the like and have always been happy that sense would prevail if things were not in order.

 

I know of several guys who took out TPO'd trees and the firm was prosecuted, but there was never any suggestion that the cutters were in line for prosecution.