Legal limitations of CS30+31

[Rupe]

I just read that again.

 

If you are both self employed thats fine, but which one gets handed the work? One of you should maybe employ the other, and have one insurance policy, that might be better.

 

Which of you has the most experience/tickets?

[Big J]

Rupe, funny you should ask regarding tickets as we actually met on the original CS30+31 course so our tickets are identical.

 

I realise that it seems like a complicated set up but it's really not. For all intents and purposes we work together. We look out for one another and outwith of the estate undertake work together. Quite simply the estate want, for their books, for us to separately invoice. Unfortunately a separate invoice means separate (though identical) risk assessment. These are requirements stipulated by Scottish Woodlands, who now administer the forestry management on the estate.

 

On a day to day basis, Iain and I are given various jobs by the foreman forester. Some are open ended (like tube maintenance, pruning or felling within a compartment within the felling licence period) and others have a time scale. We decide our working hours and so long as the work is done, the estate are happy. It's a bloody good arrangement and we are very happy with it.

 

Thanks for the clarification regarding insurance Brushcutter. I'm insured with the NFU so I'll get in contact with them and see where we stand.

 

Jonathan

[Rupe]

You have a foreman forester!! It gets better, its all his responsibility then!

 

Sound like you have a good understanding of how it works and if you are happy with the arrangement then far beit for me to undermine that. I do however still thank that you should not worry about "legalities" do what you feel comfortable with, and if not get further training until you are comfortable. The insurance is never going to pay out if one of you hits the other with a tree and the estate or foreman forester will be found to be negligent not you.

 

Tell me one thing, are you on a pre aggreed hourly rate both of you?

[Paul Jenks]

I was going to comment on the employment side of things too. It sounds like you do regular work for the estate and as such, as I understand it, technically, you are employed. It would certainly be worth talking to or communicating with the Dept. of Employment or a local HR company to find out the exact situation. However if you are happy with the current arrangement with the estate you should do this carefully so as not to upset the apple cart.

I agree with Rupe. If the foreman is issuing works orders then he has ultimate responsibility. Not a great deal of help if your'e injured though.

[Big J]

We are indeed very happy with the arrangement. We are on an agreed hourly rate and we have an excellent variety of work, undertaking virtually every duty a forester would be required to do and then some weird and wonderful stuff on top of that (recently cleared a large garden at a property where the previous chap had decided to plant the entire garden with trees - 32 tipper loads of timber and brash!).

 

Our foreman is very legality concious and doesn't want us to generally work over out legal limitation (if indeed it is a limitation, hence the original post). I am very keen to do the CS32 qualification, it's just in having recently become self employed, cash flow is a struggle at times.

 

A question though - why would my colleagues and my PL insurance not pay out if we were to be injured due to the actions of the other?

 

Jonathan

[Rupe]

Because you are not sub contractors. Your employered, the hourly rate thing confirms it. Its good that you are happy, but there is no way that you should be insuring your work when working in this manner.

 

Of course the insurance company will take your money (both lots of it) the estate are then implyign that you are responsible for each opthers, and the publics, safety. This is not the case.

 

Unfortunatly this sounds like exploitation of the work force. I think you need to get soem proffessional advice.

 

I will try and explain further if i can, but got to got to work now.

[High Scale]

 

Unfortunatly this sounds like exploitation of the work force. I think you need to get soem proffessional advice

 

Sadly still a very common problem.

[Mesterh]

If you really enjoy your work and are happy with the pay and working conditions then tbh I wouldnt say anything in regards to the legality of your employment etc.

 

Going by what you have said the Estate will probably be responsible for any accidents and for paying your income tax if they get caught.

[john dawson]

nowt wrong wiv being employed by the job or by the hour.

[ukminch]

I agree with Rupe, I don't see why your not covered by the estates insurance. A lot of people do this to avoid having employees..........

 

I'm not sure that 32 would give you anymore clout if you are using a bigger bar anyway, no where on 32 do you have to use a bigger bar. As the position stands with you being self employed I'd have thought for a 3rd party claim using a 20inch bar using basic felling techniques you'd probably be ok. Whenever I'm unsure I get a bit of advice like here, then ring the insurance company up. Explain my thoughts on it and see if they agree, then I get them to email me confirmation over.

 

Rob

Edited August 4, 2010 by ukminch
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