The safety game - stats!

[Shane]

Following on from yet another tragic accident my little old brain was jolted into action.

 

Please forgive me if you are already aware of what follows but, if it helps avoid just one accident then I make no apology.

 

Back in the 70s I worked for in Health and Safety. There was a statistics model called 'The Pyramid' and it goes something like this (please stick with it and see if your own experiences support it).....

 

To analyse the cause of an accident - in a way that we can learn from it and reduce the likelihood of a repeat - is not always easy.

 

Statistically speaking a single event is no sound basis for global changes (if it were we would all be sitting at home wrapped in cotton wool).

 

To identify areas of improvement we need lots of events (I do not wish any bad event on anyone) - so I am not advocating more accidents to provide a sound basis for analysis BUT

For every catastrophic accident there are dozens of 'bad' accidents.

For every 'bad' accident there are hundreds of minor accidents.

For every minor accident there are hundreds of near misses.

The further down the pyramid you go - the more potential to identify problems BEFORE they move up the pyramid.

Does everyone report all accidents regardless of how small (if I were a betting man....)

On a personal level - if you just make a mental note of near misses and think about what you can do in the WAY you work - you reduce the likelihood of an event moving up the pyramid.

 

We all have our moments - think pyramid.

Please don't assume you are fireproof - how many of the poor peeps who we now mourn went out that morning fully expecting to go home that evening?

 

All of them - just like we will tomorrow

[chris cnc]

good post.

 

i think if you start getting into bad habits, such as... i dunno, not using your chain brake... once you get used to that, then even more risky stuff starts becoming acceptable to you, too... Up the pyramid you go.

[skyhuck]

Interesting post, but to be honest its just common sense and any one who does not think like any way and needs to be told, is a bit thick and should not be working in our industry, IMO.

[Andy Collins]

Though I can see where your coming from Shane, I see one BIG problem. I have, over the years, worked for many companies in several industries. One common theme regarding accident/incident reporting, was that "we dont put that in the accident book, dont want HSE seeing that". its irelevant to the size of the business, that attitude is rife. Its no good having laws/rules in place if no-one follows them. One company I worked for, I impaled the sole of my foot, I was told to say I did it at home, not in company time, but I wrote it in the Accident Book, but a while later the page was missing. We work in a very macho trade, who can fell the biggest tree, who can throw the trunk the furthest, who can get round the tree the fastest and all that stuff, a lesser man is seen as a wimp in many places. Until this way of thinking is changed, nothing will change.

[Andy Collins]

Interesting post, but to be honest its just common sense and any one who does not think like any way and needs to be told, is a bit thick and should not be working in our industry, IMO.

 

Unfortunately, comoon sense just aint that common!!

[Shane]

Andy - I know we are in the real world and if you work for a firm with such attitudes you can only do so much, BUT if you are aware of the idea at least you can apply it on a personal level. Should we accept that a macho/fascist approach is OK in large companies?

Is our acceptance that 'it needs to change' perpetuating it?

[Frankie Lawrence]

Andy - I know we are in the real world and if you work for a firm with such attitudes you can only do so much, BUT if you are aware of the idea at least you can apply it on a personal level. Should we accept that a macho/fascist approach is OK in large companies?

Is our acceptance that 'it needs to change' perpetuating it?

 

Yes its all down to personal level but When someone young is told to do something they will do it they dont want to lose a job and to be honest not even the young or the 'green' a person whos struglling finacianal and are on price work will cut corners to get more monney.

 

Im young I dont climb at work alot And even if I did I have nothing to prove ive settled in nicely ive been there two years and no one can put pressure on me to do something thats unsafe be it on price work or not.

 

Also having jsut done my PA1 trainig you learn the legal and personal health effects of doing the wrong thing. Its frightening I will therefore refuse to do go out with inproper kit or anything that will put me at risk both finacianaly and more importanyley saftey wise

[Andy Collins]

I think things are gradually changing for the better, the new generations joining the ranks are getting better informed on safety matters, the 'old school" types are getting older and retiring, frequent re-training updates us on safety matters and better techniques. But saying all this, and as I have said elsewhere I havent checked any stats, are we any safer now than back in the 80's? We are hearing of many serious incidents on here, is the message getting through? For all the risk assessments/method statements, H&S hoops to jump through, affiliations to AAAC and the like, people are still getting seriously injured or worse. Yes it is a high risk trade, and we accept that, but are the measures in place actually working, or merely safe-guarding someones Teflon-coated behind up the chain of command?

[Mesterh]

I think there is a hairs breadth between a near miss and a catastrophic accident in this industry.

 

We should all know the dangers but when an accident happens it happens in the blink of an eye.

 

One second your doing your job the next your thinking 'What just happened!'

 

Although obvious I suppose or there would be no accidents:001_smile:

[Gareth Dalzell]

Shane - good post. - Common sense it may be Huck but common sense is a bit like making assumptions and we are know where that gets you when you employ staff - but I take your point.