Welcome & thank you for visiting us!

[Stephen Blair]

i havent read the link yet, but i know the things i should be doing but dont out of lazyness, no other excuse. but i have more time on my hands now and better cash flow, so i dont rush about in a blind panik anymore, lol. i am really tempted by the challenge.

[Stephen Blair]

i have just read the assesment, seems pretty straight forward, a trip to arco would get all the relevant stickers, signs and a big first aid kit for the wall. I have a big fuel safe already, but there might be things in there that arent meant to be beside each other. I dont have thepaperwork for anything in there as its all in my head, and my lad knows that aswell. But easy enough to put it on paper. Tools and fuel in the van would need to be adressed, but i have 2 big steel boxes anyhow. What i would love for someone to do is show me the perfect way to run my diary, it is made up of scribbles that only i can understand, if i handed it to someone else they wouldnt have a clue, i have my own short hand and describe my customers rather than name them lol. all the safey stuff could be done by a phone call to a safety officer, my old guy has chucked it, and they do need updating tbh. My vehicles are always in good condition. I dont have an office, its a mobile phone and a laptop case with my pricing stuff in it, simples. I dont get customer complaints as i am the boss and the problem solver on site. I reckon i could do with a couple of days with hammy to show me how to do proper reductions and thins, its something i have done very little of. this has really got me quite excited to be honest, do you have a starter pack then pointing out what we should be doing and how it should look??

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

i have just read the assesment, seems pretty straight forward, a trip to arco would get all the relevant stickers, signs and a big first aid kit for the wall. I have a big fuel safe already, but there might be things in there that arent meant to be beside each other. I dont have thepaperwork for anything in there as its all in my head, and my lad knows that aswell. But easy enough to put it on paper. Tools and fuel in the van would need to be adressed, but i have 2 big steel boxes anyhow. What i would love for someone to do is show me the perfect way to run my diary, it is made up of scribbles that only i can understand, if i handed it to someone else they wouldnt have a clue, i have my own short hand and describe my customers rather than name them lol. all the safey stuff could be done by a phone call to a safety officer, my old guy has chucked it, and they do need updating tbh. My vehicles are always in good condition. I dont have an office, its a mobile phone and a laptop case with my pricing stuff in it, simples. I dont get customer complaints as i am the boss and the problem solver on site. I reckon i could do with a couple of days with hammy to show me how to do proper reductions and thins, its something i have done very little of. this has really got me quite excited to be honest, do you have a starter pack then pointing out what we should be doing and how it should look??

 

That is indeed a big compliment SWB, and I would be more than happy to come and work a few days with you to give you some pointers (if you are serious)

[Stephen Blair]

deadly serious tony, i love a good bit of banter with you, and we have had debates but never insults. i have tried a few reductions of late since passing my cs40 a few months ago, they are about a 1 out of 10 i reckon and thats generous, tbh i just dont know where to cut from with in the tree, my eye has been trained for round or level over the years. I need shown hands on. My problem is not knowing when to stop, i cant leave it alone lol

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Like anything paul, you cant please everyone, and over the last 6 years companies have popped up from no where with cheap finance and easy credit, the last couple of years has been thinning guys out, die hard tree cutters will run their businesses at a loss just to keep working in trees, others will bail out and get a job in tescos, harsh but thats life. You have to be one step ahead of your competition and be willing to adapt to meet the demands of the customer. Off the top of your head, how many AAAC are there in scotland? i only know of 2.

 

Hi 'SWB', currently there are 3 ACs based in Scotland and one other who operates just over the border form Durham area (see Approved Contractors - Area 1 - Scotland)

 

So certainly space for (plenty) more!

 

Cheers..

Paul

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I would like to make one further suggestion, if I may? I and quite a few of my acquaintances have been hired in to assist various AAACs over the years on a subbie basis, in particular when they have had a job that maybe was outside of their usual skills (ie the tricky stuff!) This makes me wonder, would it not be possible to run a AAASC (Arb Asscn Approved Sub-Contractor) level. This would then have the same basics as for larger companies, so the small guy is recognised for his skills/paperwork etc, and also lists him/her as a suitable person to be used by AAAC's as and when required. This would not detract from the levels required from AAAC, but should fit in nicely to run alongside at an affordable level for the individual.

 

Hi Andy, thanks for the post (stop being so bl**dy polite, you're starting to sound like me and you don't want that, you'll be writing reams next...ha!)

 

I have some (serious) ideas but essentially I believe we need to have ONE level of approval for ALL but, other than i) safe working practices (the active worksite audit), and ii) work quality audit (the completed works) which will remain the same high standard for all, i.e will be a 'constant', that the levels of evidence required for the other asepcts will vary according to the size of the company. CHAS already recognise this for instance with 'less than 5' employers but we don't (there is a good reason why we haven't do date BUT 'times r a changin' n we need to too!)

 

Correspondingly (great word...and I can spell it!) this will require less assessing = lowered associated costs to the contractor = (hopefully) lowered associated annual scheme subscription fees to the contractor = (hopefully) "a pat on the back for Mr Smith for seeing the light" = more likely "A KICK UP THE A*SE FOR NOT SEEING IT BEFORE NOW".....right tree OR 'barking'???

 

Please keep this quiet as it's very provisional at this stage...'Mums the word'...thanks!

 

Paul

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Your right the cost doesnt seem to bad at all.

 

I thought that when people went on about the cost I thought it was more to do with changes that had to be done to the company to pass etc.

 

Hi 'Mesterh',

You're absolutely right, the 'direct costs' ain't that bad, it's the indirect, i.e. time/effort&resources to the company/firm, thats' the 'BIG' issue.

 

Hence taht's why we produced the 'AA H&S Package' to hopefully help contractors comply.

 

Thanks..

Paul

[Robert_S]

Really interesting thread and posts

 

Whats the main reason for company's giving up there AAAC status as i know edinburgh council was one a few year ago but not anymore,

What is the percentage of drop outs from the scheme as i am sure like us you want to keep all your existing clients and also attract new ones.

 

The reason i ask is i thought Frontier forestry and west lothian council were AA approved contractors in Scotland along with the other three have they opted out of the scheme?.

 

What code of conduct do the contractors have to adhere to? i.e i would imagine BS3998 BUT what if the client wants the tree half and wont take no for an answer as a AAAC do you have to walk away?

When times get hard this may be a financial handicap for the mostly domestic contractor, this is of course is hypothetical situation i am just interested in the answer.

 

Paul i would also like to add, i think you have done more to bridge the gap from the AA to the tree surgeon/arborist/tree cutter etc in the last month on this forum than the AA have done in years. top job mate.

 

Robert

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

deadly serious tony, i love a good bit of banter with you, and we have had debates but never insults. i have tried a few reductions of late since passing my cs40 a few months ago, they are about a 1 out of 10 i reckon and thats generous, tbh i just dont know where to cut from with in the tree, my eye has been trained for round or level over the years. I need shown hands on. My problem is not knowing when to stop, i cant leave it alone lol

 

Putting my neck on the line here a bit, BUT before I do can I just say (yawn, ywan, here he goes...time to make a brew!) what you're doing withyour diary is absoluetly fine so long as 'Mrs Miggins' gets entered in there, probably with an appointment to quote straight away (= bl**dy good customer service) n then you turns up when you said you would and follow up withyour quote (one chap, samll company, recently had a quote triplicate pad he took to site and gave the quote there n then....fantastic! AND, he got many jobs there and then as clients didn't want to wait for others....see we've got lost of little gems to share!) The message being we wouldn't be insisting you employ a secretary for this purpose and provide her with a computer & MS Outlook for electronic diary appts. BUT if you have and you do then that's absolutely fine too....kinda 'horses for course' BUT, importnatly, withthe same outcome, i.e. a happpy 'Mrs Miggins', n that's what we're interetsted in!

 

Reet, is the blade sharp (for mi neck?)

 

The following gives an indication of the weightings assigned to the various aspects of the standards (this is guidance and 'not set in stone'...maybe in should be...dunno?!)

 

Sect. Title Element Score Accumulative Score

1 On site* 20

2 Completed works* 20 40

3 Customer Care/Office 5 45

4 H&S systems / procedures 10 55

5 Training / competence 10 65

6 Personnel / HR 3 68

7 Insurance 3 71

8 Managers Arb Knowledge 10 81

9 Ref. material 2 83

10 Wildlife / ecology 5 88

11 Reports (optional) 0 88

12 Licences 4 92

13 Stores / workshop 5 97

14 Yard 3 100

* indicates a mandatory element which must be achieved at above 75% of available marks

 

SORRY THIS HAS GOT COMPLETELY LOST IN TRANSLATION, THE FIRST FIGURE IS THE INDIVIDUAL ELEMENT SCORE AND THE SECOND THE ACCUMULATIVE SCORE

 

The point I'm trying to make here (and please accept the above as indicative, it's what the assessors are mindful of when arriving at an outcome to an assessment) is that a 'heavy' weighting is given to the practical aspects of the job, i.e. 50% if you include the managers knowledge as much questioning surrounds the works undertaken.

 

I often get asked why only '3' marks assigned to Insurance whihc is importnat and a good indication of a responsible and repuatble contractor, the reason being whilst you MUST have appropraite insurance (and please read your policies, I do ('ANORAK!'), and it wouldn't be the first time I've pointed out a height restriction on felling, for instance, taht the contractor wasn't aware of) it's actully very easy to obtain ('YES' it cost much hard earned 'dosh' but anyone can get it!)

 

However not everyone can do a bl**dy good crown reduction, or crown thin, even with CS40 on board and some previous experience and that's a real test. Equally not everyone can dismantle a tree using 'modern', i.e. not a 16mm polyprop over a branch crotch, rigging systems safely and efficiently and at a commercial pace even with CS41 on board. And whilsy a contractor would need the latter, i.e. CS41, in place (not necessarily CS40) it's real 'operational competence' we are looking for and when we see it working well we're very happy and smiley.

 

Not quite sure how I got here but I hope this info is useful (if not really relevant to the posting...ooops!)

 

thanks..

Paul

Edited March 11, 2010 by AA Teccie (Paul)

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Really interesting thread and posts

 

Whats the main reason for company's giving up there AAAC status as i know edinburgh council was one a few year ago but not anymore,

What is the percentage of drop outs from the scheme as i am sure like us you want to keep all your existing clients and also attract new ones.

 

The reason i ask is i thought Frontier forestry and west lothian council were AA approved contractors in Scotland along with the other three have they opted out of the scheme?.

 

What code of conduct do the contractors have to adhere to? i.e i would imagine BS3998 BUT what if the client wants the tree half and wont take no for an answer as a AAAC do you have to walk away?

When times get hard this may be a financial handicap for the mostly domestic contractor, this is of course is hypothetical situation i am just interested in the answer.

 

Paul i would also like to add, i think you have done more to bridge the gap from the AA to the tree surgeon/arborist/tree cutter etc in the last month on this forum than the AA have done in years. top job mate.

 

Robert

 

Hiya Robert, thanks for the post.

 

Companies dropping out of the scheme typically do so at the time their re-assessment is due, mainly because they then have to shell out a large amount of money and they, quite rightly, review the 'worth' of the status and sometimes decide this is not great enough to maintain, i.e. it's usually a commercial decision (frustratingly and clearly we need to do more, much more, to increase the 'worth/value' of the status, after all its' a voluntry scheme NOT mandatory.)

 

In terms of 'withdrawals' annually its around 6, I would say, and probably 3 or 4 of these ar ethe commercial decisions I mentioned above with retirements / ill-health / folding up etc. being the other reasons. Thankfully tho, to date, more join than leave, marginally, so numbers are fairly constant around the 150 mark.

 

WL Council are still AAACs but they chose not to advertise on the website nor in the Dircetory as they don't do outside work ad don't want the inevitable enquiries. FF are no longer AAAC sadly.

 

Your hypothetical question is a very good one, thank you. My none 'hypothetical' reply is I wholly accept there will be occassions, hopefully the exception rather than the rule, where ACs will be required to undertake none BS3998/industry 'good' practice works as you have to make a living and, if the client is intent that's what they want doing, then better you as a reputable contractor do it safely and responsibly than someone else.

 

HOWEVER, what I would expect is that the AAAC gives a very clear explanantion of the implications of those actions AND what the likley outcomes will be AND the requirements for future management etc., i.e. regularly dealing with the regrowth, every 4-5 years, on a 'topped' Poplar before they start breaking out. I would also like to see this written into the quote so the client is clearly informed of the consequences of the actions and understands why it doesn't accord with good practice....that, for me, is the differnce bewteen a good contractor doingthis type of work as the exception, with a well informed client, and the rogue contractor who don't give a damn and don't understand why what they do stores up problems for the future. In this situation, I would also like to see alternatives offered, i.e. if the tree really is too big for the site then removal and replacemnet with something more suited is my recommednation Mrs Miggins.

 

Interestingly this is a 'hypothetical' scenario I often pose during the Q&A session of the AC assessment as it allows exploration of a whole host of knwoledge areas, i.e. why is it bad practice, what are the likely outcomes, what if the tree was TPO'd?..etc. etc. etc. Really good fun stuff..ha!

 

Best regards, post back if more 'hypotheticals' I likes um!

 

Thanks again..

Paul

Edited March 11, 2010 by AA Teccie (Paul)