IR35, full time work, and the tax man…

[Barney]

No you are not missing anything, loads of companies are 'winging it' across all trades. I know builders that do it, arb approved companies that rely on full-time freelancers. It's very common, if I were a freelancer I personally wouldn't commit to one company 5 days a week and not be on the books.

 

 

[SussexHarry]

Just now, topchippyles said:

Self employment has its benefits. 

I’m sure it does, when done lawfully! But there is no such thing as “self-employed” when you’re doing it for one single company full-time. HMRC would consider you to be an employee in that case, and that puts your “client” (employer) in a very tricky position when someone decides to have a nose around their tax affairs. They would also be liable for any missed sick/holiday pay.

[SussexHarry]

8 minutes ago, Barney said:

No you are not missing anything, loads of companies are 'winging it' across all trades. I know builders that do it, arb approved companies that rely on full-time freelancers. It's very common, if I were a freelancer I personally wouldn't commit to one company 5 days a week and not be on the books.

 

 

I figured this was the case.

 

I get that arb is a very seasonal career, and the jobs tend to be short and sweet (negating the need for a whole team of full-time staff), but it seems to me that efforts by employers to dodge this comes at the expense of their “freelancers”, who are working full time but missing out on holiday pay, sick pay, and missing out on crucial employees right and entitlements.

 

One company I worked for briefly runs an entire team of full-time “contractors”, who show up at the yard every day at 7 sharp. I’m sure this works great for them at the moment, as they don’t have to pay any NI, Income tax for their staff, sick pay, holiday pay, and so on. But I can’t help but think the young lads on the team are getting royally f***ed by this setup and I don’t think the poor sods realise it. Not to worry though, because the boss got a nice big new truck recently 🤦‍♂️ and I doubt he’ll care much when the work dries up and his staff haven’t got a leg to stand on when they start wondering about redundancy pay…

Edited September 23 by SussexHarry

[topchippyles]

2 hours ago, SussexHarry said:

I’m sure it does, when done lawfully! But there is no such thing as “self-employed” when you’re doing it for one single company full-time. HMRC would consider you to be an employee in that case, and that puts your “client” (employer) in a very tricky position when someone decides to have a nose around their tax affairs. They would also be liable for any missed sick/holiday pay.

This is why they lay you off for a few days here and there so its not a continuous employment. Happens all the time in the building trade. 

[swinny]

I'd say you sound a right barrel of laughs and swallowed employment law book for breakfast.

 

Are you a spam bot that works for hmrc?

[SussexHarry]

27 minutes ago, swinny said:

I'd say you sound a right barrel of laughs and swallowed employment law book for breakfast.

 

Are you a spam bot that works for hmrc?

I appreciate it’s not the most exciting topic but, as someone who is joining the industry with the idea of one day starting my own company in the back of my mind, it’s important to me. Start as you mean to go on, and all that…

[AHPP]

You need to talk to a guy called Paul Elcoat. It won't make you any more employable (quite the opposite in fact) but you might enjoy it.

[swinny]

16 minutes ago, SussexHarry said:

I appreciate it’s not the most exciting topic but, as someone who is joining the industry with the idea of one day starting my own company in the back of my mind, it’s important to me. Start as you mean to go on, and all that…

If that's the case then you don't want to be full time for anyone, neither on the books or not. 

 

You need to be self employed and work for various folks seeing various different setups and how things are done. Travel about a bit. Not all eggs in one basket 

 

When you first start a company I very much doubt you will employ straight off the bat. You will use freelance people to get you going

[SussexHarry]

14 minutes ago, swinny said:

If that's the case then you don't want to be full time for anyone, neither on the books or not. 

 

You need to be self employed and work for various folks seeing various different setups and how things are done. Travel about a bit. Not all eggs in one basket 

 

When you first start a company I very much doubt you will employ straight off the bat. You will use freelance people to get you going

I was thinking this. But I am starting to wonder if some time on PAYE would be beneficial to start, just for some job security and steady income while I save up and acquire my own kit.
 

Starting up on my own is a long way off though. There’s enough one-man-bands in my area doing jobs for cheap… I’d rather wait a while and get something a bit more professional established, as and when the time is right. Still got a while to go.

[topchippyles]

22 minutes ago, SussexHarry said:

I was thinking this. But I am starting to wonder if some time on PAYE would be beneficial to start, just for some job security and steady income while I save up and acquire my own kit.
 

Starting up on my own is a long way off though. There’s enough one-man-bands in my area doing jobs for cheap… I’d rather wait a while and get something a bit more professional established, as and when the time is right. Still got a while to go.

Most agencies offer paye don't make it secure