Neighbour has requested removal of my 160 year old Copper Beech (TPO/AONB/Conservation area)

[MarkII]

Neighbours house built in the 1970's, the attached garage is within a couple of metres of the tree, which would have been over 100 years old when the house was built. Built on clay sloping away from the tree and with 6ft retaining walls other side of the property and another large Beech tree on that side.

No damage or subsidence occurred until suffering cracking during last 6 months of 2022. (ABI has identified 2022 as the worst subsidence claims issue UK wide since 2006 - due to drought)

My neighbours claims management company appointed structural engineers and an arborist to assess the situation.

The cracking in the house appears to be in the middle of the house which is away from my tree and from the movement assessment, the main movement seems to be at the opposite end of the property with next to no movement right next to the tree. 

The first course of action is to insist on the tree's removal with an aggressive couple of letters. 

The engineer reports suggest that the tree 'contributes' to the issue, not suggesting it is the main cause however the arborist states the tree as the main cause. Also mentioned by the engineer is that the house has insufficient foundations and once the tree removed, will require further monitoring and probably underpinning anyway.

 

Does anyone experienced any similar situations and can offer any advice/guidance i.e. how fast do Beech's grow? Are there any alternatives to removing/can it be chopped back bit to reduce water consumption without losing it's stature? If it is removed, is it likely to cause more issues as it's 160 year old root base declines? (I am estimating it's age based on Mitchells rule with a girth of 330cm)

We're in an AONB, conservation areas and the tree has a TPO on it, in addition to being widely loved by the community (applied to have it dead-wooded and the parish council turned up at my door!) and is visible throughout the valley when in leaf.

Just feels like the insurer is trying to offload the liability onto my insurance and remove this grand old copper Beech to try to avoid paying for fixing the insufficient foundations, any advice or guidance would be gratefully received!

 

Pics show the tree in question, the attached double garage of the neighbours on the right

 

Many thanks

Mark

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by MarkII

[daltontrees]

Leave it to the insurers. Seriously, don't try and get involved. But here are some considerations.

Beech grows slowly at maturity. Mitchell's rule is not always applicable.

Since we don't know location, existence of shrinkable clays would be speculation.

It doesn't matter that the tree came first.

It doesn't matter that the foundations are already inadequate.

The TPO shouldn't change things, if the Council tries to get involved in preventing a solution it will take on responsibility for future damage.

Pruning won't stop subsidence unless extreme and repeated.

If there is tree related subsidence removal would probably cause heave but you wouldn't be responsible for heave damage.

Things aren't black and white. You might be only partly responsible.

Leave it to the experts. It's a legal minefield. I know what I would do but that's irrelevant.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by daltontrees

[Mick Dempsey]

Well, in this case your tree officer is your friend.

 A lot of peeps on here can offer guidance, the most obvious is @daltontrees

[peds]

What a beauty, lucky to have a tree like that in your garden.

 

I can't offer any specific advice on the tree situation, but keep in mind that if you wee on a plate or a baking tray then freeze it, you'll have a handy disc of frozen piss that can easily be dropped through your neighbour's letterbox in the middle of the night, whereupon it'll melt into his carpet.

 

Good luck!

[openspaceman]

Much as you appear to value the tree you should appreciate that if it is in fact 160 years old it is a veteran and removal will be getting more expensive over time. I cannot comment whether it could have caused subsidence this is down to soil type but if the discussion goes against you and the TO would not agree to react to a 211 notice by serving a TPO then  turn the discussion to the engineer's report only apportioning some blame on the tree and consider a "without prejudice" offer for them to pay for tree work.

 

Yes it is a lovely tree and a public visual amenity but it is no longer in its original environment.

[daltontrees]

15 hours ago, peds said:

What a beauty, lucky to have a tree like that in your garden.

 

I can't offer any specific advice on the tree situation, but keep in mind that if you wee on a plate or a baking tray then freeze it, you'll have a handy disc of frozen piss that can easily be dropped through your neighbour's letterbox in the middle of the night, whereupon it'll melt into his carpet.

 

Good luck!

Idiot! I am sometimes embarrased by the arb indistry when stuff like this is said to members of the public. Grow up.

[peds]

Ah, lighten up. 

[daltontrees]

1 hour ago, peds said:

Ah, lighten up. 

Someone's house, possibly their biggest investment in life and the roof over their heads, is subsiding. It might cost ten grand to fix. They're probably worried sick. Their insurer have taken up the case for them. The tree owner is now worried too and naturally wants to keep the tree. It might cost him thousands if he's unlucky. So he registers for Arbtalk to be able to get some reassurances, presumably thinking that professionally minded and helpful people might be found here.

But the second bit of advice he gets here is to piss on the neighbour's carpet anonymously. Sick, and in no situation a proportionate or appropriate action.

Seriously, get a grip of yourself. It's you that needs to lighten up (as well as grow up).

[aswales]

I'd be interested to read the arborist report, tree roots remove moisture from the soil...the further the distance from the house perimeter the ground inside the house gets drier from my experience...the trees roots spread as far as it needs to, to provide anchorage and to search for moisture, nutrients etc...soil types make a difference and other local conditions make a difference...some of these long dry periods we keep experiencing are causing a lot of soil shrinkage and very wide cracking of the soil, my own location seen 1-2 inch soil cracks... houses built on strip foundations bound to experience issues...has any crack monitoring been installed and the situation been monitored over a year or 2 ?  Very easy to just blame the tree...

[aswales]

My own house is on clay as well, although in recent years cracking is worse...it is not significant and I have a large horse chestnut close to the house...tree is not having any effect 

[Mick Dempsey]

Just now, aswales said:

My own house is on clay as well, although in recent years cracking is worse...it is not significant and I have a large horse chestnut close to the house...tree is not having any effect 

How do you know the tree isn’t having any effect?