Aerial Rescue Practice

[5thelement]

On 11/07/2023 at 17:44, Mr. Squirrel said:

It’s in everyone’s best interest, anyone who’s that resistant to the idea should probably seek another career where they can’t be called on to save a colleagues life. 

Thankfully I only work with very experienced colleagues. I’ve been climbing nearly 30 years, some guys I work with have more time under their belt, so 2 BBQ’s a year aren't really going to improve this.

When we used to practice aerial rescue, the times would vary from around 6 minutes to double that, too long, I could apply a tourniquet and be down with the squad first aid kit in under a minute in most cases.

Its up to you to do what you think is right, I’ve worked out what’s the best for me.

For the guys who are practicing arial rescue regularly, let’s see some photos of the trees next time, with timings for each rescue, let’s see the data rather than opinion and we can make our own minds up on its importance.

[carlos]

On 11/07/2023 at 16:44, Mr. Squirrel said:

I’ve dipped in and out of this thread since is started and have been very surprised by the input. Many posters seeing little value in AR training, while others seem to be pretty against the very idea of one. 

I know of at least 4 people who have performed aerial rescues, two which involved arterial bleeds which without the rescue climber would have been fatalities. Both of those rescue climbers did lots of rescue training.

While we never know how people will perform under pressure, training for these scenarios WILL stack things in at our favour for a positive outcome. It isn’t a time for problem solving, it’s a time to fall back on systems and operations that allow for an efficient casualty retrieval. I’ve discussed this at length with ex military rescue professionals who were of the same opinion. The idea that an untrained groundy would step up to the plate and get you down is very aspirational, not to mention would be putting them in a situation they simply can’t manage safely. 

 

Honestly the cost argument is ridiculous too imo. It could just be at the end of a pruning job rather than knocking off at 3, ‘oi you, come and do a rescue’ kinda thing.  If you’re running a business with a few climbers just have a chat with them, turn it into a social. Figure out a weekend when they can all get together and practice a couple of scenarios. Have a bbq and a few beers afterwards, sorted.
 

It’s in everyone’s best interest, anyone who’s that resistant to the idea should probably seek another career where they can’t be called on to save a colleagues life. 

interesting post, i had often wondered whether anyone had performed an aerial rescue.

i cant see any disadvantage from a workers point of view in practicing rescues, not that we do very often  mind.

[Mr. Squirrel]

1 hour ago, 5thelement said:

Why where these climbers not equipped to stop an arterial bleed themselves and get themselves to the ground? Rather than relying on a person on the ground to get set up and rescue them (how long does this take in reality), slower than the time it takes for catastrophic blood loss from an arterial bleed in nearly all cases?

 

Taking a punt here, but I suspect that given they were unable to descend they probably weren’t in much of a state to apply a dressing. Probably something to do with sinking a saw into their thigh 🤔

 

51 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

Thankfully I only work with very experienced colleagues. I’ve been climbing nearly 30 years, some guys I work with have more time under their belt, so 2 BBQ’s a year aren't really going to improve this.

When we used to practice aerial rescue, the times would vary from around 6 minutes to double that, too long, I could apply a tourniquet and be down with the squad first aid kit in under a minute in most cases.

Its up to you to do what you think is right, I’ve worked out what’s the best for me.

For the guys who are practicing arial rescue regularly, let’s see some photos of the trees next time, with timings for each rescue, let’s see the data rather than opinion and we can make our own minds up on its importance.

Very experienced colleagues who are so bad at rescues you guys have written off the idea of one 🙄 

In all seriousness this isn’t a matter that’s up for debate. Practicing rescues makes you more effective should the need ever arise. It isn’t even just all about arterial bleeds either, I was at an event last year where someone passed out up a tree. I suppose you’d have been able to implement a self rescue despite your lack of consciousness? 
 

As for data, I’ve given you multiple examples of occasions where an aerial rescue was vital to someone’s survival. If you need more than that then…? 😬🤷🏻

[Mr. Squirrel]

If you can get someone on the deck in 6 minutes though then you could absolutely administer life saving first aid in the tree. 

[5thelement]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Taking a punt here, but I suspect that given they were unable to descend they probably weren’t in much of a state to apply a dressing. Probably something to do with sinking a saw into their thigh 🤔

 

Very experienced colleagues who are so bad at rescues you guys have written off the idea of one 🙄 

In all seriousness this isn’t a matter that’s up for debate. Practicing rescues makes you more effective should the need ever arise. It isn’t even just all about arterial bleeds either, I was at an event last year where someone passed out up a tree. I suppose you’d have been able to implement a self rescue despite your lack of consciousness? 
 

As for data, I’ve given you multiple examples of occasions where an aerial rescue was vital to someone’s survival. If you need more than that then…? 😬🤷🏻

Not written anything off, just did some practice times with some very capable climbers, obviously not as good as you mind, your times must be competition grade.

You’ve not supplied any data, just opinion and claiming you know of 4 recent arial rescues, let’s see your actual timings for your practice rescues instead.

Arterial bleeds from thigh cuts, where these guys not wearing PPE then?

[krummholz]

6 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

Arterial bleeds from thigh cuts, where these guys not wearing PPE then?

Surely we all know that depending on the Class and type of chainsaw trousers, and the size of chainsaw being used, that chainsaw ppe doesn't remove the risk of injury, only mitigates it.

And maybe they weren't wearing PPE. They still needed an aerial rescue, they got one from a prepared and competent rescue climber, and it probably saved their life.

 

[krummholz]

@5thelement Do you live and/or work in the UK?

[Mr. Squirrel]

12 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

You’ve not supplied any data, just opinion and claiming you know of 4 recent arial rescues, let’s see your actual timings for your practice rescues instead.

Arterial bleeds from thigh cuts, where these guys not wearing PPE then?

Why would timings for an aerial rescue practice carry more weight than instances where people were actually saved by a swift rescue? 
One wasn’t wearing cutting trousers, one was. We all know that a big saw going full pelt will get through cutting trousers though. 

[dan blocker]

Must admit I’m a little surprised by some of the comments on here. There is a requirement to be able to facilitate an aerial rescue of a stricken climber, yes it’s quicker if the climber can lower himself, but if he’s unable to due to unconsciousness, major trauma to a hand or arm where he’s unable to operate his lowering device, epileptic fit, heart attack, stroke, etc, then there is a reason for someone on the ground to assist him. Did my aerial “tick in the box course” 25 years ago and though then what pain in the arse it was, slow, potentially too late to alter the outcome? What’s wrong with practising/ refreshing something if it could potentially save someone’s life? We do it with CPR/ Trauma first aid(don’t we🤔). How long do we have to spend to refresh once a month, every 6 months? Couple of hours? How often do we all have a job and finish early day? Thought it was human nature to help someone who needs it? Or are you going to be like most of the people on the ground in the HSE reports and pretend you didn’t see it🤔

[5thelement]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Why would timings for an aerial rescue practice carry more weight than instances where people were actually saved by a swift rescue? 
One wasn’t wearing cutting trousers, one was. We all know that a big saw going full pelt will get through cutting trousers though. 

Your Aerial rescue timings might be actually something like accurate, the rest of what you are claiming sounds like bullshit.