Boiler stove info help please.

[trik]

Hi all,

Hope all is well.

 

May be a bit of a strange post I'm writing.

But I'm looking for a bit of help information. I searched the internet for a while & I can't find the thing I'm looking for, but this site was on a list that I opened in a search. So I joined (hope that don't sound to that's all there is kind of thing.)

 

I have a open fire place. & I want to turn it into a boiler stove fire place (freestanding.)

 

Before I go talking to shops about something I no little about (well a very small bit). I thought join a forum group that may have bit of info, so when I go into shops I won't get ripped of or have something that's either no use, to big or ...

 

 I have a few questions, if any of you folk can help with, that be great, thank you.

 

My fire place... Open fire.. 

Stone wall that surrounds it. Stones are flat ( building stone from an old stone shed) size of the stone is 4" inch wide x 1" + inch thick.

So my mantle/ timber shelf on top of the stones is again about 4" wide x 1" inch 1 & half inch thick.

 

I only have a size of (floor space for a hearth) of 50" inch x 26" inch (50 wide x 26 length). The 26" inch would include if I take down my stone fire place. 

 

Ive seen (online) that there should be a gap / space of X from the stove on the side & from the wall for heat exchange. 

 

I'm looking at boiler stoves from 10kw to about 12 - 13 kw. (to heat a few rads).

 

Would I be ok with my space I have for a multi fuel (smoke / less coal / timber).?

 

Also Id need a pump to pump the water, if I get an electric powered pump & we have a power cut. That's not good...i don't want to blow my system. 

 

Is there a pump that's electric but can be battery back up, for power cut reasons.?

 

1 more thing if I may,. If the stove says it's got 6" inch flue, that means the the opening for the flue is 6' inch. Can I connect a 5" inch flue liner to it via a reducer.?

 

Thanks a lot for reading & any help you can pass on. 

 

Talk to you again. 

Thanks.

[htb]

I think you may struggle to find a stove with a boiler fitted as supplied. You may find an old stock one or a retrofit boiler to put in a suitable stove. IIRC they are/have been stopped from sale due to emissions. 

 

 

[trik]

Hi  htb.

Thanks for your reply...

I'm living in Ireland, & at the moment I don't no anything of non sales.

I've been looking at different brands all around the same price, slightly different output to room / water.

But yeah sold as a multi fuel sale tag on them. 

 

Thanks.

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, trik said:

Also Id need a pump to pump the water, if I get an electric powered pump & we have a power cut. That's not good...i don't want to blow my system. 

 

Is there a pump that's electric but can be battery back up, for power cut reasons.?

This is why in UK you must have a vented system with a 28mm vent pipe leading directly up to the F&E tank (okay not strictly true as some systems are allowed with pressurised thermal stores and system controls as well as pressure relief into a tundish).

 

You could use a big battery and inverter to act as a UPS on the pump.

 

Best read a bit of the UK building regulations Part J to set up a safe system even if you are elsewhere.

[trik]

Hi openspaceman. How you going.

Think it's slightly warming up today. No ice on the car.

Yeah will have a read over the thing you say part j. I'm not really into this health & safety thing, but I won't cut corners to save a few quid. Please don't take that the wrong way... 

The 1st part you say ..f&e tank, & ... I'm sorry il have to re read that & then probably Google what you mean, there's a bit to much for my brain..lol.

 

Thanks a lot for your info. All is interesting.

Thanks & talk to you again soon. 

Have good day. 

[roys]

Can’t answer any of questions but one comment re pumps.

I have a 16kW multifuel stove, thermo siphons the hot water to a 200L hot water cylinder directly above in loft, pipe stat on return pipe that puts on a pump to feed 5 rads once the return temp reaches 55deg C, switches back off again at 35 deg C.

The point of the story is, the fire was going full tilt last night and was at 50 deg C and rising fast when we got a power cut, I immediately throttled back the fire by closing the vent and it held at 51 deg C for the next 3 hours until the power back on when we restocked the fire and opened the vent back back up.

PS to answer above:

F and e is feed and expansion tank, this means it is not a closed pressurised system and there is a small header open header tank with a ball cock which will top up low water.

Edited December 17, 2022 by roys
Addition info

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, trik said:

Hi openspaceman. How you going.

Think it's slightly warming up today. No ice on the car.

Yeah will have a read over the thing you say part j. I'm not really into this health & safety thing, but I won't cut corners to save a few quid. Please don't take that the wrong way... 

The 1st part you say ..f&e tank, & ... I'm sorry il have to re read that & then probably Google what you mean, there's a bit to much for my brain..lol.

 

Thanks a lot for your info. All is interesting.

Thanks & talk to you again soon. 

Have good day. 

@roys answered that it is the small tank in the loft that is kept full of cold water by a ballcock. The vent pipe from the stove comes up and over this tank so that if the water boils in the stove it can vent into the F&E tank.

 

Even if you have a pumped system you need this pipe to have a clear line to the F&E tanks because as roys said if you have a power cut and the stove is running flat out you need to dump heat.

 

Part J lays out safe distances between the stove and combustibles in the house as well as distances for flue outlets to prevent combustion products getting into the house.

 

I always recommend a CO alarm, I suspect we will see a few deaths in this cold spell from CO poisoning.

[Steven P]

Chimney question: At 10 to 12kw you will need to use the flue size specified by the manufacturer, 5" will be too small I suspect, and sorry to say. Reducing from the stove to the flue never sounds like a good idea.

 

For stove size, I'd consider your opening and allow at least 6" air gap around it to give the maximum size you could fit in

 

 

Power cuts - we don't often have them but could see a problem if you have just gone out, leaving the fire running. The open ended pipe is a simple pressure relief system, so you don't blow up the boiler with pressure. If your heating only water, and it's not under pressure then the maximum boiler temperature should be 100 deg C (ish) if there is always water there. The header tank should ensure that - and will be needed as well (run the boiler dry and max temperature can easily get to 500 to 750 deg C (we've all pulled glowing nails and screws out of a stove) and that could be a problem)