Best rope for Capstan winch

[s o c]

Hi.

A customer we are clearing a site for asked if I would take a capstan winch in part payment.

Portable winch 1000kg , Honda engine,

seems like a useful tool, handy to have in the van for certain jobs.

he gave me a big coil of 3 strand “polysteel’

(he called it) 12mm rope to go with it.

Am I correct in thinking this type of rope might not be suitable?

What would be the best type of rope for use  with capstan?

 Thanks.

[waterbuoy]

IIRC Polysteel is often used by creel boats for their pots - these are lifted using a pothauler which is similar to a capstan winch so that might suggest it would work.

 

12mm Polysteel has a MBL of c. 2,500kg so is sensibly sized for the winch.

 

I'd be tempted to give it a trial first before splashing out on additional rope - in which case polyester briad on braid would probably be best.

 

I'm not sure how Polysteel wears - straight polyprop will bugger your hands after a while, but maybe Polysteel is less agressive?

Edited September 23, 2022 by waterbuoy
correct information & typo

[AHPP]

The polysteel isn’t a recommended pairing or whatever but if it works for what you do with it, it works. The Rolls Royce for static stuff is braid covered dyneema like Novoleen. If you want elasticity, any arb rigging rope will do but try to pick one with a less waxy outer braid. English Braids are waxy and Yale actually have a waxy coating option. I have a Marlow that works nicely on a capstan. I’d investigate Marlow, Stein and Teufelberger in that order for a replacement. 
 

On winching, make sure you know how elastic your rope is and plan your pulls accordingly. Sometimes you want static, sometimes you want elastic, sometimes it doesn’t matter. 

[openspaceman]

10 hours ago, AHPP said:

On winching, make sure you know how elastic your rope is and plan your pulls accordingly.

Generally elastic is deprecated for winching as it stores energy in the stretch, then if something it is attached to gives way it gets propelled by turning all that stored energy into kinetic energy.

[AHPP]

I know. That’s why I suggested he makes sure he knows how elastic his rope is and plans his pulls accordingly. My mother tells me things I’ve just said myself too.

[5thelement]

On 24/09/2022 at 00:03, AHPP said:

Sometimes you want static, sometimes you want elastic,

SEILFLETCHER NOVOLEEN x 13mm is what I have on the Eder 1800. 
I have been thinking about what you wrote about elastic in the rope being beneficial, but can’t think why in the situations I use my winch in, when do you find elastic rope beneficial, what circumstances?  

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, 5thelement said:

SEILFLETCHER NOVOLEEN x 13mm is what I have on the Eder 1800. 

 

Have you figured out if it can be spliced thin enough to pass through the winch? Wear an tear have taken a couple of metres off mine  but I'll be long gone before it gets too short, just wondered.

3 hours ago, 5thelement said:

I have been thinking about what you wrote about elastic in the rope being beneficial, but can’t think why in the situations I use my winch in, when do you find elastic rope beneficial, what circumstances?  

 

It's a touchy subject because a number of accidents have happened in vehicle recovery when something other than the rope has let go. I know of one fatality from back when we used nylon cable lay for climbing and old ropes were repurposed for lowering. Not a bad thing then because it took the shock out of the system (and on one occasion cause me to fly when I misjudged the branch weight).

Many years ago a  National Trust team were using a manual fell assist, like a tug of war, when something gave way, the attachment broke loose with a stub still tied to the rope and it was propelled onto  the lad's head.

 

Essentially this is converting stored elastic energy into kinetic energy.

 

When used in vehicle recovery  with a second vehicle it can be very useful. Kinetic Energy Recovery Ropes convert the energy of the recovering vehicle, as the stretch in the rope brings it to a halt, into an impulse that delivers more force  for a short period than the traction of the recovering vehicle could exert. The timing of driving both vehicles is critical and because the forces on both vehicles is high attachments have to be stronger than static pulls.

 

One thing when winching to pull a tree over is that after the tree has begun moving the rope goes slack as the winch cannot keep up. Then it is only the hinge (or as second rope at an angle) that keeps the tree from breaking out sideways.

 

To mitigate this we have tried allowing the winch to hoist up a weight so its gravitational pull keeps the rope taut but one could use the elasticity in a rope to do much the same if the other problems could be addressed. Trouble is to get the most elasticity out of the rope you would tend to get a bit too close to a breaking point.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by openspaceman
spelling

[AHPP]

2 hours ago, 5thelement said:

SEILFLETCHER NOVOLEEN x 13mm is what I have on the Eder 1800. 
I have been thinking about what you wrote about elastic in the rope being beneficial, but can’t think why in the situations I use my winch in, when do you find elastic rope beneficial, what circumstances?  

 

Pre-tensioning a fell, especially when using a clutchless winch and no backup/pig/progress capture. Use the tree bend and the rope stretch to store energy so it goes when your back cut (or release) is finished and you don't have to go back to the winch to get it over.