Mature Larch beyond help??

[D.e.hill]

Hi, new here so thanks in advance for any help. 
 

My neighbours had a tree surgeon over today to look at some unrelated stuff in their garden, but he happened to notice our European Larch tree and comment that it should have far more growth by this time of the year and that it was probably beyond help. 
 

I don’t know the surgeon, and I’m getting this second hand so I’m hopeful someone here might be able to advise?

 

Pictures attached. The tree is the most redeeming feature of the house so I hope it’s not dying! It is normally bushier in the summer. 

 

Anything I can do? All help gratefully received. 

[openspaceman]

I think he is probably right, I would have said root damage  but can see no reason for it. Phytophthora fungus is a possibility as it is larch and more likely is it is Jap or hybrid larch though I haven't had experience of it here, but then most larch plantations are long gone locally.

[drinksloe]

Depending where u are but in many places phytophora is rife in a lot of commercial larch.thousands of acres are being cut to try and stop the disease in some cases often just cut to waste

 

have a google PR in larch and see if it has any symptoms, but poor crown growth does indicate somethings not right with it

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, D.e.hill said:

Hi, new here so thanks in advance for any help. 
 

My neighbours had a tree surgeon over today to look at some unrelated stuff in their garden, but he happened to notice our European Larch tree and comment that it should have far more growth by this time of the year and that it was probably beyond help. 
 

I don’t know the surgeon, and I’m getting this second hand so I’m hopeful someone here might be able to advise?

 

Pictures attached. The tree is the most redeeming feature of the house so I hope it’s not dying! It is normally bushier in the summer. 

 

Anything I can do? All help gratefully received. 

It looks like Phytophthora to me, it usually starts showing signs at the top of the tree first, is there any signs of a dried up black liquid that has stained the bark in any areas on the bark ? usually near where the branches come off the main stem ? 

[D.e.hill]

Thanks all. Very helpful, if a little depressing!! I’ve just googled PR and it’s not very optimistic reading really. 

 

We’re in Bristol. My garden is surrounded on all sides by other gardens and no other mature trees. 
 

I’ll have a look for some black discharge and report back. 
 

What’s the best plan to manage things from here? Leave her for a couple of years until it’s dead and have it felled? Get it cut back now to try and promote some new growth? Bite the bullet and get it felled (my least favourite option!)?

 

Thanks again. 
 

 

[drinksloe]

I assume it is the same for private/domestic tree owners as commercial/forestry owners but strictly speaking IF it is PR its a notifiable plant disease and u will be made to cut it down or face fines.

 

Where i am in sw scotland, further west is riddled with PR and an FC helicopter flies over the area about this time of year spotting infected looking trees ( dying crown) then send someone out to inspect them on the ground.

If confirmed as PR they 6 months ( i think ) to fell every larch tree in a 200m radius, after that they get an extension then fined..

 

So not really much options for trying to save the tree if PR ( PR is spread throu pores from the tree so it will be releasing more each year)

Do u or ur neighbours have any rhodedendrums? they can harbour PR without really being effected just black spots on the leaves, if FC se that they will make u cut back the rhodies.

 

U really need to identify if PR ( in my area it is so rife now u just assume it is now without looking too much for any signs, just about forgot wot they are now, hence check websites for proper signs). but as spud says generally black seepage or blisters

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, D.e.hill said:

Leave her for a couple of years until it’s dead and have it felled?

That makes things more risky as the wood is less predictable when felling let alone less safe to climb.

 

Anyway if it's diseased then the longer it stays the more spores it spreads.

[drinksloe]

Just wondering

 

IF a tree surgeon/arborist diagnoses/confirms that it is PR is the homeowner ( or tree surgeon) meant to inform the local FC officer or do u have to get him out before u cut it down to confirm it is PR??

Just incase he then has to survey the wider area??

 

 

Looking at the photos which may well be decieving, if u moved/took the monkey bars of the slide u may well get a straight fell down to corner of ur garden., doesn't look a massively tall tree and quite a big garden. But i could be wrong also when just looking at the photo

Would make it cheaper than if it needs climbed

 

[drinksloe]

Another just thinking question

 

Again assuming PR, i don't know the status of the Bristol area, i'm assuming it will be PR free or wot ever they call it.

If OP wants timber/brash/chip removed would they need a licence?

And does that also mean timber/brash/chip then has to go to a designated/licensed site??

So u can't just log it for firewood and sell it? althou i assume the homeowner could burn it himself in a log burner?

 

In my area its so rife no one really bothers now, further west is the red zone and pretty much given up even trying to control it, i think were in the caution/observation zone? where jumping on it quick but not bothered about where it is moved too as  long as stays within this local area.

So no need for licences etc any more

[D.e.hill]

Thank you all very much for your help, it’s appreciated. 
 

Attached are some close up photos of the trunk and branches, and any areas I could find that looked like they had sap or anything else discharging. To be honest, I couldn’t find much. There is a sort of slime around some of the trunk that looks like slugs/snails have been on it. There is some weeping of sap where I’ve screwed in some lights and a few “holes” where it looks like some branches have been removed. 

Our friendly tree surgeons were back next door today and kindly popped across for a look. The chap said it definitely looks in difficulty with lots of dead wood, but he couldn’t see any obvious signs of rot/decay/mould/parasite etc. that would cause it. He suggested I needed to get his boss over to have a look as it was a bit specialist - I’ve booked this for Monday afternoon. 
 

Interestingly he pointed out that one of the trunks looks fairly healthy and one is really struggling. He suggested cutting all the dead wood out in the first instance, but I’ll wait to see what the boss-tree-surgeon says on Monday. Photos showing the two sides also attached. 
 

As always, any further thoughts appreciated!

[Spruce Pirate]

The bleeds on your tree don't look like classic P. ramorum lesions, dieback in the branches often comes in from one side which could account for why only one of the stems seems in trouble.  Was there any sign of dieback last year when the rest of the tree was still holding good, green needles?  Is there any sign of new small shoots growing from the stem or stems? (epicormic growth)  Are there any brown, dead looking needles being retained on the tree?  If the tree is infected then it will be dead this time next year so probably better to get it dealt with sooner rather than later.

 

In a commercial setting infected larches are served with a Statutory Plant Health Notification which requires the trees to be felled.  This must be done within a certain timeframe, dependant on when the SPHN is served, but basically it is designed to have the trees felled before the fungus has sporulated to help prevent, or slow the spread of the disease.  Machinery and equipment used to fell the trees should be cleaned and disinfected prior to  leaving site, this includes PPE, boots, etc.  As far as I'm aware, you don't need a license to move the timber, but a mill must be licensed to process the timber.  I'm afraid I don't know the implications for a domestic setting, but I'm pretty sure the disinfecting part at least would still apply.  The licensing requirement for sawmills is mostly to do with disposal of the slab wood and waste, so I'd think there may well be some restrictions on chip and timber being moved.

 

You may well be able to access free advice from your local Forestry Commission or DEFRA office.