Chipper freedom day announced

[trigger_andy]

14 hours ago, Justme said:

Trailer accident stats were not collated for a long time after the 97 change.

Plus its only been over the last 5 ish years that enforcement & education on BE has been promoted. What I can say is that the 2018 trailer safety study showed that driver error & lack of training was the biggest cause of trailer accidents. They were actually looking at starting the MOT for trailers but the stats did not support that change. What it did support was making the tests harder & doing more education & promotion of training & the need for the BE test. DVSA own recommendation was to increase testing & training for BE. The DVSA are refusing to show the H&S justification in their decision that it will have minimal impact on road safety.

 

It is interesting that when you see a caravan splattered over the road it does tend to be a pre 97 licence holder. Most I see locally that are speeding are again pre 97 licence holders, Same again re being in outside lane on Mway.

 

Over the years I have trained people that are shit scared of towing to those that have been towing illegally since 01-01-97 & think they know it all. All of them learnt something on the course,. No I dont know it all but I do know how to get the best out of people & get them to be the best that I can. My role was not just driver trainer but also life coach & phycologist. For most people coping with stress situations is a big factor.

 

A few things you would not believe clients have told me about their driving:-

I have been driving 5 years & have not been further than 10 miles from my house.

I have never been on a dual carriageway.

There are no roundabouts in the area I live so have never been on one before today.

I only drive to & from work (so in 10 years of driving that have 30 mins of actual experience repeated many times).

I cant park my car unaided.

I never reverse, ever.

I dont drive in towns or cities & the opposite I dont drive in the country.

 

I sometimes honestly dont know how some actually drive themselves to meet me.

 

Now dont get me wrong most are not that bad. However virtually all have let bad habits form & need a brush up in their general standard of driving. In fact most of the course is getting them to a basic standard of driving that car drivers should already be at all the time.

 

 

That was a very long winded way to say no, there was no discernable decrease in Trailer accidents since the BE was introduced in '97/'98. 

[aspenarb]

17 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

That was a very long winded way to say no, there was no discernable decrease in Trailer accidents since the BE was introduced in '97/'98. 

That's interesting Andy, curious to know if that's because all the accidents are with the older entitlement drivers vs the trained ones.

 

Bob

[trigger_andy]

2 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

That's interesting Andy, curious to know if that's because all the accidents are with the older entitlement drivers vs the trained ones.

 

Bob

I guess there is a number of ways in which you could extrapolate the data. 

 

1, as you suggest. 

2, That introducing the BE License and the required training/test did not in fact make any discernable difference to road safety over the last 20 years and therefore was a needless hinderance. 

 

If what you suggest was true then Id expect to see a steady decrease in the number of Trailer accidents over the last 20 years as the now older entitlement drivers either died off or retired and stopped using Trailers. 

 

From my own experience of using a Trailer over and under 750kg since I past my test in '98 I have yet to see a Trailer accident on the roads or been stopped and inspected. Ive only ever seen one traffic stop by the police pulling Trailers over in all that time. Maybe. Everyone I know who past their test after '98 and tows over 750kg regularly has yet to have an accident or be pulled over. Of course this is purely empirical but in my mind it reflects the bigger picture and perhaps one of the reasons the government changed the rules regarding BE. That being there is no noticeable decline in accidents since BE was introduced and chasing under 40's for towing over 750kg is virtually un-policeable. 

[aspenarb]

Not so sure Andy, I have seen dozens of caravan accidents involving tank slappers and I have seen a fair few plant trailer accidents. its never been a nipper stood at the side of the road looking bemused.

 

Bob

[trigger_andy]

Just now, aspenarb said:

Not so sure Andy, I have seen dozens of caravan accidents involving tank slappers and I have seen a fair few plant trailer accidents. its never been a nipper stood at the side of the road looking bemused.

 

Bob

Kids dont tend to go on Caravan holidays though do they, if they do they tend to visit static caravans.  Its generally Coffin Dodgers and half of them should not have a license full stop. 

[Justme]

2 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

That was a very long winded way to say no, there was no discernable decrease in Trailer accidents since the BE was introduced in '97/'98. 

Because that is not what I said at all.

[Justme]

2 hours ago, aspenarb said:

That's interesting Andy, curious to know if that's because all the accidents are with the older entitlement drivers vs the trained ones.

 

Bob

Anecdotally yes most do seem to be in the pre 97 group.

Again official stats dont record this.

[Justme]

2 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

 

2, That introducing the BE License and the required training/test did not in fact make any discernable difference to road safety over the last 20 years and therefore was a needless hinderance. 

 

If what you suggest was true then Id expect to see a steady decrease in the number of Trailer accidents over the last 20 years as the now older entitlement drivers either died off or retired and stopped using Trailers. 

 

 

20 years out of a driving life time of around 50 years is nothing.

The bulk of people towing (and driving) today are still pre 97 licence holders.

The youngest would be about 41 now. The oldest I guess 100+.

So 60+ years of drivers passing the test compared to the 24 years of post 97 test passes.

 

Whilst the law changed in 97 its only been in the last 5-8 years that enforcement has really happened & that people taking the test has increased dramatically.  The first big data gathering exercise re trailers was for the 2018 report. That showed without doubt that driver error & lack of training was the cause of most trailer accidents.

[Justme]

2 hours ago, aspenarb said:

Not so sure Andy, I have seen dozens of caravan accidents involving tank slappers and I have seen a fair few plant trailer accidents. its never been a nipper stood at the side of the road looking bemused.

 

Bob

This is my direct experience on the road also & my experience of all the crashes I have seen videos & pictures of online.

[Justme]

When we take our own experience in isolation it twists the data.

 

We all (well most) agree that covid is real.

 

Yet until about 2 weeks ago I did not personally know anyone that had tested positive for it.