Beech Tree - Doesn't look good

[Cobbs tree&estate service]

I know the tree. It's local to me. The tree has been in decline for the past few years. Probably around 1/3rd of the tree is dead. I wouldn't trust it to climb and to rig it off itself. My view is the damage was done when the house was built. No tree protection put in place. The driveway construction destroyed a large proportion of the root structure. Its another common case of no planning enforcement. To remove the tree. As well as the dead material. You also have the house, the main road and a busy junction to be dealt with. I can't see that the tree could be saved.

[RichSutherland]

18 minutes ago, agg221 said:

Think of the difference between an arb report and a tree surgeon having a look at it as similar to the difference between a surveyor and a builder having a look at a building. Both can probably tell you what needs doing to an extent, but they are not the same thing.

 

Do you know the tree surgeon you have asked to have a look at it well and have reason to trust them? If they are highly experienced and you have a good relationship then it might be what you need but bear in mind that a tree surgeon generally makes most money by doing most work, which could create a conflict of interest.

 

Whereabouts in the country is this? There may be some arb consultants on this site who are suitably located to help.

 

I should add, I am not a professional in this field but the only thing I can see that I would definitely do is remove the ivy, partly because I wouldn't want it going any further and partly because the lower down there are problems, the more significant they are likely to be and ivy on the trunk can hide a multitude of sins. I think it's a positive approach to want to retain large trees - so often people want to remove them or hack them back due to fear of what might happen, so buying a property, getting proper advice regarding options and enjoying the trees is a good thing!

 

Alec

Thanks so much, the property is just outside Hereford.

[RichSutherland]

6 minutes ago, Cobbs tree&estate service said:

I know the tree. It's local to me. The tree has been in decline for the past few years. Probably around 1/3rd of the tree is dead. I wouldn't trust it to climb and to rig it off itself. My view is the damage was done when the house was built. No tree protection put in place. The driveway construction destroyed a large proportion of the root structure. Its another common case of no planning enforcement. To remove the tree. As well as the dead material. You also have the house, the main road and a busy junction to be dealt with. I can't see that the tree could be saved.

This is really sad to hear - sorry I'm completely new to this forum, are you someone who can do an arb report? Was the drive not done when the house was built around 2005 or was it done more recently? The drive seemed to be as is back in 2011 at least (as per images from google maps). I thought the tree looked perhaps like it had an infection rather than was dead based on looking at it. Does it not all bloom? 

 

I think we'd ideally like to get a specialist in and see if there is anything we can do to save it. Even if we have to cut some off, get rid of ivy and improve ground conditions somehow. 

 

 

[Treeation]

Hi, I am based in Gloucestershire and I undertake tree condition surveys, If you do need a tree condition survey to add some clarity I would be happy to help, Just PM me. Regards Patrick

[Chris at eden]

I looked at a tree a couple of weeks ago to give a second opinion. A tree surgeon had knocked the door and told the owner that his pine had died and needed to be felled.  I told him it hasn’t, it’s a larch, not a pine and it’s supposed to lose its needles in the winter. 
 

Then last week I did a development site survey.  The resident said his tree surgeon had told him his Elm had Dutch Elm Disease which was a shame as the house was named after the tree, Elm House it was called. I told him it was nonsense as the tree was a maple. Same tree surgeon told him he needs a MEWP to take out 15ft Lawsons Cypress as it has BT wires through it. 
 

there are some really good tree surgeons out there, but also some bad ones. Consultants as well to be fair. 
 

 

[Chris at eden]

11 minutes ago, RichSutherland said:

 

 

I think we'd ideally like to get a specialist in and see if there is anything we can do to save it. Even if we have to cut some off, get rid of ivy and improve ground conditions somehow. 

 

 

You can possibly look at bite infusion injections and de-compaction / mulching. Depends how far it has gone and what the underlying cause is.  

[Cobbs tree&estate service]

I'm afraid that I don't have the qualifications to write you a report.

The tree now only has a very thin leaf covering on the remaining live branches. It does have a large amount of larger dead branches that have noticeably excelerate in the past year.The closest Consultant that I know is Jerry Ross. He is based at Ross-on-Wye.

[agg221]

A couple of observations which I hope the other contributors to this thread will agree with.

 

If a tree is not likely to fail from the base (in a way which presents an unacceptable risk if it did which I would think is likely to be the case here) then it does not -need- to be removed. Everything beyond that is a balance of cost and likely outcome. Different people will view this in different ways, depending on how much the tree is worth to them. For some people, it would not be worth the cost and effort of trying the techniques Chris has suggested when weighed against the probability of success. A lot of tree work is driven to a budget and the likely outcome from just cutting back a beech is not going to be positive, so for them the most cost-effective approach would be to take it out. However, that does not take into account the value of a particular tree to a particular individual, so to you it  may well be worth enough to make the investment.

 

If on balance after a proper inspection you conclude it is preferable to remove it, you would have options for replanting. You cannot replace a tree of that size in a short timeframe, but you could invest in a large, heavy standard (not the kind of thing you buy at the garden centre) and with proper aftercare it would make a reasonable statement within a few years. This would also give you the choice of some specific varieties. Personally, I always think copper beech looks gloomy and I really like the appearance of the fern-leaved beech (Asplenifolia) and quite like Fagus engleriana but that's my opinion - yours will no doubt differ. The point is that there would be choices that you could make if you find yourself in that unfortunate position.

 

Alec

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris at eden]

6 minutes ago, agg221 said:

A couple of observations which I hope the other contributors to this thread will agree with.

 

If a tree is not likely to fail from the base (in a way which presents an unacceptable risk if it did which I would think is likely to be the case here) then it does not -need- to be removed. Everything beyond that is a balance of cost and likely outcome. Different people will view this in different ways, depending on how much the tree is worth to them. For some people, it would not be worth the cost and effort of trying the techniques Chris has suggested when weighed against the probability of success. A lot of tree work is driven to a budget and the likely outcome from just cutting back a beech is not going to be positive, so for them the most cost-effective approach would be to take it out. However, that does not take into account the value of a particular tree to a particular individual, so to you it  may well be worth enough to make the investment.

 

If on balance after a proper inspection you conclude it is preferable to remove it, you would have options for replanting. You cannot replace a tree of that size in a short timeframe, but you could invest in a large, heavy standard (not the kind of thing you buy at the garden centre) and with proper aftercare it would make a reasonable statement within a few years. This would also give you the choice of some specific varieties. Personally, I always think copper beech looks gloomy and I really like the appearance of the fern-leaved beech (Asplenifolia) and quite like Fagus engleriana but that's my opinion - yours will no doubt differ. The point is that there would be choices that you could make if you find yourself in that unfortunate position.

 

Alec

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I agree. But the chap wants to try to save it.  It’s impossible to say how likely it is that it can be saved without seeing it.  it could have Kretz or Merip in which case it’s doomed. Or it could be compaction related which could possibly be fixed. Canopy looks pretty naf in the pic though. 
 

I did a research project on plant health care in the UK back in 2014 for my L6 dip. It’s a huge industry in the US but it’s rare in the UK. It’s picked up a bit since but not much. The number of times I have seen crown reduction recommended for compaction issues where there is no risk is ridiculous.  For risk management fair enough but it won’t fix the underlying issue. 

 

 

[Mick Dempsey]

I feel people are ignoring @Cobbs tree&estate service posts.

He saw the damage being done to the tree in the house build, sees the tree regularly and has noticed the decline in leaf cover and dead wood in it.