Can I do some extra freelance work for the company I work for?

[AHPP]

The most depressing/laughable thing about this thread is that since Bolam and I artfully prodded it half of the contributors are talking about ELI and half are talking about PLI and nobody appears to have realised.

[eggsarascal]

1 minute ago, AHPP said:

The most depressing/laughable thing about this thread is that since Bolam and I artfully prodded it half of the contributors are talking about ELI and half are talking about PLI and nobody appears to have realised.

Just the very man, I'm sure you could draft an email to get a definitive answer.

[Rich Rule]

There is a blog entry by Tree Surgeon Insurance on this exact topic.  

[Paddy1000111]

29 minutes ago, doobin said:

Yes but in your example the boss disregarded all established protocols by not securing the drop zone. I’d then draw a comparison with the Somerset lorry crash where the driver wasn’t prosecuted but the boss and mechanic went to jail for falsifying maintenance records. 
 

I do agree with your position that insurance is sensible to have regardless. I disagree with a lot of hypothetical scenarios you outline. 

But part of the training and tests when you get your ticket is to ensure your drop zone is clear. If you couldn't see the drop zone and your boss says "It's all clear down here" Whilst looking little Timmy in the eyes then the liability is on the boss. 

 

The only reason I bring in other industries is because the arb world is tiny and you don't tend to hear about law suits and cases. What I can say though is the arb world is identical to any other industry as to how insurance works and how the law applies. It doesn't matter if you're up a tree or turning spanners.

 

I agree to the above comment that it is the employers responsibility to insure that the freelancer is covered for public liability. That doesn't mean that ALL insurance policies cover the freelancer as most **Should** All policies and insurers are different. You could have an insurance policy that covers the boss and one labourer, you could also have one that covers everyone and anyone who works for you, it's based on ££££.

 

The original question for all this was "Can I work as a freelancer for my boss" when told he needs to make sure that he is insured, he was told "Call yourself a freelancer and you're covered under the bosses insurance" which is only true if your boss checks his insurance and it covers freelancers and covers all aspects of their work. All I said was to check, not that if your policy says it covers freelancers it's a lie. 

 

In regards to it being a companies responsibility to ensure all their staff are trained and experienced that's correct. It doesn't mean they don't make mistakes or no-one would need insurance. 

 

This really isn't that hard? There's only two ways this can work- Either:

1. When working for a client you check your insurance situation and have it on paper.
2. You are saying that if you call yourself a "freelancer" you are completely immune to all responsibility at work no matter what happens? 

There's really no point in emailing an insurer with the question (which I can do if you really wanted) because all this is about is me saying "Check your insurance" and everyone telling me "No need to, you're always covered" which isn't true. We would have to email every arb insurance provider and make sure that every arb policy they offer covers unlimited numbers of staff/freelancers and covers freelancers for absolutely everything including court costs for manslaughter which sounds even more tiring and a waste of time than this thread.. 

 

This post Rich? https://treesurgeoninsurance.co.uk/articles/employers-liability-insurance/

Edited December 22, 2020 by Paddy1000111

[Paddy1000111]

Even those blogs from treesurgeoninsurance and their insurance guide say exactly the same as I have been saying since the start:

 

 Some tree surgeons will be covered if they are subcontracting for other people but this isn’t always the case. You need to be 100% sure that somebody else has insurance that will cover you.

 

You MUST read the whole of the section on Employers’ Liability Insurance – even if you are using self-employed subcontractors

 

 

[AHPP]

Just the very man, I'm sure you could draft an email to get a definitive answer.

I’m sure I could. Who’s paying?

[Rich Rule]

8 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

But part of the training and tests when you get your ticket is to ensure your drop zone is clear. If you couldn't see the drop zone and your boss says "It's all clear down here" Whilst looking little Timmy in the eyes then the liability is on the boss. 

 

The only reason I bring in other industries is because the arb world is tiny and you don't tend to hear about law suits and cases. What I can say though is the arb world is identical to any other industry as to how insurance works and how the law applies. It doesn't matter if you're up a tree or turning spanners.

 

I agree to the above comment that it is the employers responsibility to insure that the freelancer is covered for public liability. That doesn't mean that ALL insurance policies cover the freelancer as most **Should** All policies and insurers are different. You could have an insurance policy that covers the boss and one labourer, you could also have one that covers everyone and anyone who works for you, it's based on ££££.

 

The original question for all this was "Can I work as a freelancer for my boss" when told he needs to make sure that he is insured, he was told "Call yourself a freelancer and you're covered under the bosses insurance" which is only true if your boss checks his insurance and it covers freelancers and covers all aspects of their work. All I said was to check, not that if your policy says it covers freelancers it's a lie. 

 

In regards to it being a companies responsibility to ensure all their staff are trained and experienced that's correct. It doesn't mean they don't make mistakes or no-one would need insurance. 

 

This really isn't that hard? There's only two ways this can work- Either:

1. When working for a client you check your insurance situation and have it on paper.
2. You are saying that if you call yourself a "freelancer" you are completely immune to all responsibility at work no matter what happens? 

There's really no point in emailing an insurer with the question (which I can do if you really wanted) because all this is about is me saying "Check your insurance" and everyone telling me "No need to, you're always covered" which isn't true. We would have to email every arb insurance provider and make sure that every arb policy they offer covers unlimited numbers of staff/freelancers and covers freelancers for absolutely everything including court costs for manslaughter which sounds even more tiring and a waste of time than this thread.. 

 

This post Rich? https://treesurgeoninsurance.co.uk/articles/employers-liability-insurance/

No it was the Are you a bona blog.

[eggsarascal]

6 minutes ago, AHPP said:

I’m sure I could. Who’s paying?

Not me if you are charging in 6 minute increments.

[Rich Rule]

16 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

 

 

The original question for all this was "Can I work as a freelancer for my boss" when told he needs to make sure that he is insured, ...

 

 

That isn't exactly what you said though mate.  Look back at your first post in this thread and you said he needs PL Insurance.

 

On 19/12/2020 at 22:51, Paddy1000111 said:

No reason why not but you will need insurance/public liability etc. That will be even more expensive as a sole trader than a ltd company. You will also need to be registered for self assessment tax. Make sure the extra he is paying you covers the costs. People hear the connie prices but don't understand the connie costs... 

 

I agree, it has been a good thread with plenty of discussion.  Which can and should benefit people in the position of the OP.

[Paddy1000111]

Just now, Rich Rule said:

That isn't exactly what you said though mate.  Look back at your first post in this thread and you said he need PL Insurance.

 

I agree, it has been a good thread with plenty of discussion.  Which can and should benefit people in the position of the OP.

I apologised for that later on, I should have said he should check about insurance and he may need his own insurance if he isn't covered which pushes him away from freelancing and more towards subcontracting so would have less of a worry about IR35.

 

I just don't like the whole "Call yourself this and you're insured" attitude that some people have. Especially when you're handing out advice to people who are making decisions that could cost them a lot of money. Equally what I said could have made him rush out and by PL insurance which would have not been any use either.