Time to re-stock the firewood pile

[Bob_z_l]

My vented bags - not the mosquito mesh on two sides type but the perforated vertical strips - have lasted 4 years plus.

I use them for Oak mainly. Start the oak off outdoors and cover it for the winter for the first year. In the spring it gets stacked in the drying shed. Another year and I'm close to 20%.

 

Birch was no good. Grew too much fungus and rotted.

Beech, Ash and Syc all ok but still needed the drying shed to finish.

 

[youngsbury]

On 28/04/2020 at 13:49, coppicer said:

Thanks for these figures. I'd be interested to hear what weights you get with your new crane scales.

 

I'm in the early stages of thinking about how to get a more efficient workflow for firewood, but starting from a very different place to you. The firewood isn't a business for me, just a chance to get outdoors away from my desk, get some exercise, do a bit of problem-solving, and help keep the woodland properly managed. There's an opportunity to save money on energy over the long term, but that's only one factor among many.

 

So far, felling trees and cutting them up with a Truncator 6Pro has worked well for my (low) volumes, but the problem has always been drying and storage. Since I have some large windblown trees to get through, in addition to the smaller ones that I fell, this problem is only going to get more pressing over the next year or two.

 

I don't have any internal or even covered storage space, so I'm thinking of using those big vented bags, one to a pallet, with a bit of tarp placed inside and on top to keep off the worst of any wet. The problem I can see with that approach is that once you fill a bag they can no longer be handled manually. If I fill the bags and leave them in the yard or garden, I'm going to have a large pile of huge plastic blobs next to the lawn. The wife doesn't think is a good idea and I understand her point of view. If I fill the bags where I process the firewood in the woodland, I would really struggle to transport them back to the house as they are.

 

As far as I can see, there are three options for transport.

 

1) Get a portable gantry crane, set it up where the bags are processed in the woodland, and use a hoist use to lift the pallet with a four-legged lifting chain, one leg to each corner. The bed of my Land Rover Hi-cap is 900 mm off the floor, so with the gantry at a height of, 3000 mm, it should be possible to raise a pallet high enough off the ground to allow the Land Rover to back under it. Then I would reverse the operation at the house end. I would probably only need 4-5 bags a winter. Problems? Fiddly to move the crane to and fro; time-consuming; not a cheap option.

 

2) Use plastic pallets. Get an electric winch and some metal ramps, attach winch to front of Land Rover bed (probably attached to chassis in some way) and pull the plastic pallet up metal ramps. Problems: most metal ramps specifically designed to be non-slip; unloading probably quite tricky; would need a lot of space at unloading end.

 

3) Use a tractor. If the bag is on a pallet, and you have a tractor with pallet forks on either the three-point link or on a loader, then you're laughing. Unfortunately the affordable compacts - the smaller/garden tractor Kubota, Iseki, etc. - don't have hydraulics that look remotely capable of picking up 350 kg or 500 kg of bag stuffed with logs. So that suggests going bigger, and (if you avoid the wrecks that will need lots of spannering) before you know it you're looking at £10k or £15k rather than £3-4k. Something like your Kioti would be perfect, but expensive. I could sell the Landy to soften the blow, but a tatty old 300Tdi Hi-cap isn't going to fetch much. Problems: none, other than cost!

 

So I'm still mulling things over...

Just reading through this thread and we have a little solis 26hp compact tractor with a loader/ pallet forks on the estate and use the vented bags with a pallet underneath and it picks them up ok. 

[coppicer]

6 hours ago, youngsbury said:

Just reading through this thread and we have a little solis 26hp compact tractor with a loader/ pallet forks on the estate and use the vented bags with a pallet underneath and it picks them up ok. 

Thank you, that's useful to know. Sounds surprisingly strong.

[difflock]

crane scales finally delivered, see images;

The fresh felled and cut to length this morning bundle is Lodgepole pine, weighing 322Kg but at a measured  0.615m3 in volume with a moisture meter reading of 35%(which struck me as low?)

The dry bundle at 169Kg is mostly Sitka at a measured 0.55m3 and 14%, 

After measuring the diameter and calculating the volume,

the wet Lodgepole gives me 524.87Kg/m3 @ 35%

and the dry Sitka calcs out at 306.66Kg/m3 @ 14%

I suppose I need to ferret out enough Sitka to process and weigh wet.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by difflock

[Marc Lewis]

No problem I need to sort the bio out and ask on here another day ! Will also have this Jutul log burner but is a bit of a beast ! 

That is a lovely wood burner.

[coppicer]

On 05/05/2020 at 16:31, difflock said:

crane scales finally delivered, see images;

The fresh felled and cut to length this morning bundle is Lodgepole pine, weighing 322Kg but at a measured  0.615m3

So there's not quite as much wood in one of your neatly strapped bundles as there would be in a ton (1m x 1m x 1m) bag, and a full cube would be, as you point out, upwards of 500kg for the Lodgepole when wet. Quite a weight.

 

With regard to the Sitka, I don't think I've ever (knowingly) seen one; do you have access to a plantation...?

 

Finally, may I ask which crane scales you bought, and whether you rate them - early days I know, but thinking of getting a pair myself.

[difflock]

57 minutes ago, coppicer said:

So there's not quite as much wood in one of your neatly strapped bundles as there would be in a ton (1m x 1m x 1m) bag, and a full cube would be, as you point out, upwards of 500kg for the Lodgepole when wet. Quite a weight.

 

With regard to the Sitka, I don't think I've ever (knowingly) seen one; do you have access to a plantation...?

 

Finally, may I ask which crane scales you bought, and whether you rate them - early days I know, but thinking of getting a pair myself.

coppicer,

A common misconception re the "tonne" builders bags, they are indeed intended to hold 1 tonne of sand or aggregate BUT said aggregate with a nominal bulk density of say, 1800kg-2000Kg/m3,

so are in fact something like 850mm by 850mm by 900mm deep, giving a notional volume of 0.67m3(from lazy memory)

BUT def not 1.0m3 in volume.

My tight strapped bundles probably hold more timber and less air voids.

Yes I got a wee plantation of Sitka, grant planted 40 odd years ago and started to blowdown, being planted in peat over impermeable clay.

Re crane scales, cheap shite from China bought off ebay,

I would not therefore take on to recommend any over any other supplier.

Cheers

Marcus

[coppicer]

7 minutes ago, difflock said:

BUT def not 1.0m3 in volume.

My tight strapped bundles probably hold more timber and less air voids.

Understood, thank you, suggests that your 300-350kg result might be pretty typical for a "ton" bag of logs with high moisture content, after all.

[difflock]

18 minutes ago, coppicer said:

Understood, thank you, suggests that your 300-350kg result might be pretty typical for a "ton" bag of logs with high moisture content, after all.

I have always intended to cut-to-length  a single billet-bundle into a builders bag via the wee conveyor belt(for random unstacked filling) to establish the actual difference.

Various reputable internet sites give conversion figures for the density of a given solid wood to carefully stacked round wood bulk density, to carefully stacked split wood bulk density, to random loose firewood bulk density. 

So many variables.

And the "chancers" selling firewood in builders/jumbo/1tonne bags and claiming they are 1.0m3 does NOT help.

[coppicer]

23 minutes ago, difflock said:

I have always intended to cut-to-length  a single billet-bundle into a builders bag via the wee conveyor belt(for random unstacked filling) to establish the actual difference.

That would be educational!