Surely this must be the end of stove related legislation for now?

[Alycidon]

11 hours ago, aesmith said:

There were people on here saying that 20% was too high.

Me,  try burning 20% hardwood in stove,  it burns but only half heartedly.   Then try the same species of timber at 10%,  you will be astonished at the difference.  All stove manufacturers advise they want a max moisture content of 16%, some 15%. In fairness 20% softwood is acceptable.

 

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[Alycidon]

On 27/02/2020 at 13:47, arboriculturist said:

I think the latest headlines will not help businesses like yourselves without doubt. It may be a good time to diversify into moisture meters! I ordered a new one just today.

 

No, without doubt I don't think this is the last of it.

 

I replied to a post from Alcydion but he has not had time to reply yet - here is the question in response to his post:

 

I have a question  -  A very important question:

 

You say:   "The regulations will be tightened further in 2025 and possibly again in 2030 not that the latter will bother me  to much,  I will be long dead by then".

 

Exactly how,  would you suggest   "will the regulations will be tightened further in 2025 and possibly again in 2030" ?

 

I am sure the planned legislation, when implemented, will have far reaching effects and a at first glance it would appear that a huge number of people are underestimating the gravity of the changes. 

 

Much of the pressure will end user - the customer, as they will have been subjected to a barrage of information on 'Ready to burn' firewood from all angles as I have mentioned in another thread. Many will be buying moisture meters off ebay or Amazon and when ordering they will be asking a lot more questions before they order, then on delivery they will be out with the axe and moisture meter.

We have had 2 cases as such in the last 48hrs!

Missed this earlier in the thread, apologies for that.

 

Eco Design is a Europe wide plan to reduce our emissions and increase of heating efficiency.   The first round hits the Uk in 2022,  minimum stove efficiency moves to 75% and lowers maximum emissions although this has yet to be formally written into UK law it is in the pipeline.

 

Following that there is another round that is proposed to be implemented in 2025,  80% has been mentioned as a minimum efficiency and emissions levels further reduced,  and there may be another round in 2030.

 

Ironically while there are plans afoot to outlaw the dirtyiest fuels ( house coal and hi sulpher man made smokeless fuels) there is no requirement to ban the use of open fires whose efficiency is only around 25% and whos emissions are far higher than even old stoves.

 

Personally I always carry a moisture meter in the Landrover to prove MC on delivery is asked.  

 

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[aesmith]

12 hours ago, Alycidon said:

Me,  try burning 20% hardwood in stove,  it burns but only half heartedly.   Then try the same species of timber at 10%,  you will be astonished at the difference.  All stove manufacturers advise they want a max moisture content of 16%, some 15%. In fairness 20% softwood is acceptable.

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Our hardwood burns fine, but I have no accurate idea of it's m/c and our drying and storage is pretty good being at the back of a South facing dutch barn and seasoned for at least two years.  So it is probably drier than a commercial outfit would be able to achieve.

If current stoves can't run properly on wood @ 20% then we really need some better designs.  If they need 15-16% then for most people that's going to mean buying in kiln dried.  Essentially they have to use a manufactured fuel and not "firewood" as we know it.  

[Stubby]

19 hours ago, Alycidon said:

Me,  try burning 20% hardwood in stove,  it burns but only half heartedly.  

 

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I have no problem what so ever burning hard wood at 20% . In fact I would not want it any lower .  Incidentally I think kiln dried wood at 15% or lower , should it get wet say from rain , is much harder to dry again than air seasoned wood should the same thing happen . ( tipped on driveway in the rain scenario ) .  

[arboriculturist]

The customers I speak to about kiln dried wood say that it is very expensive and burns away far to quickly.

 

I do everything in my power to promote naturally air dried firewood and vise versa dissuading the public to avoid forced dried firewood and I will continue to actively do so.

 

The average homeowner with a woodburner is not so unintelligent that they can't work out for themselves that they do not wish to personally subside a business via the RHI scheme to force dry firewood, that they then have to pay a premium to buy back to burn themselves.

 

Stating the truth about force drying firewood does not make you popular with those that sell it, but it is a shameful practice that continues to exist at present and the planned legislation merely adds fuel to the fire. 

 

Any one else with me on this ?

[maybelateron]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

I have no problem what so ever burning hard wood at 20% . In fact I would not want it any lower .

I agree entirely. All my logs are air dried, both for customers and my own use. 

[maybelateron]

11 minutes ago, arboriculturist said:

 

I do everything in my power to promote naturally air dried firewood and vise versa dissuading the public to avoid forced dried firewood and I will continue to actively do so.

 

The average homeowner with a woodburner is not so unintelligent that they can't work out for themselves that they do not wish to personally subside a business via the RHI scheme to force dry firewood, that they then have to pay a premium to buy back to burn themselves.

 

Stating the truth about force drying firewood does not make you popular with those that sell it, but it is a shameful practice that continues to exist at present and the planned legislation merely adds fuel to the fire. 

 

Any one else with me on this ?

I am with you 100%.

[aesmith]

13 hours ago, arboriculturist said:

Stating the truth about force drying firewood does not make you popular with those that sell it, but it is a shameful practice that continues to exist at present and the planned legislation merely adds fuel to the fire. 

I seem to remember that the current legislation was at least in part the result of campaigning by one UK kiln dried supplier and one importer of Latvian kiln dried.

[Alycidon]

15 hours ago, arboriculturist said:

The customers I speak to about kiln dried wood say that it is very expensive and burns away far to quickly.

 

I do everything in my power to promote naturally air dried firewood and vise versa dissuading the public to avoid forced dried firewood and I will continue to actively do so.

 

The average homeowner with a woodburner is not so unintelligent that they can't work out for themselves that they do not wish to personally subside a business via the RHI scheme to force dry firewood, that they then have to pay a premium to buy back to burn themselves.

 

Stating the truth about force drying firewood does not make you popular with those that sell it, but it is a shameful practice that continues to exist at present and the planned legislation merely adds fuel to the fire. 

 

Any one else with me on this ?

That's why I offer a choice of kd or seasoned hard or seasoned soft. 

[aesmith]

Just out of interest I checked a few kiln dried suppliers, only one of these promised any actual figure lower than 20%.  That one supplier offered imported Beech specified as 10-15% MC.  All the others just said something like "less than 20%" or "an average moisture content below 20%".

 

So if stove suppliers start pushing for people to use 15 or 16% it's going to mean even more wasteful kilning than's going on at the moment, and quite probably even more imports.