Single rope climbing UK and the HSE

[Guest]

Hi,

 

Im new to Arbtalk and I’ve not looked through all the discussions. What’s your reaction to this ?

Petition update · Arb Association Arborist Working Group meets HSE · Change.org

WWW.CHANGE.ORG

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An open meeting between the Arboricultural Association Arborist Working Group & the HSE has been...

 

 

[MattyF]

Overwhelmingly disappointed and frustrated that it’s come to this , most of us know this is the wrong decision.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi Matty, sorry you feel that way and, at the end of the day, it's about legal compliance regardless of individual preferences which have prevailed for many years.

 

In practice, I've already seen working examples of both '2 ropes' (in a very large / broad crowned Cedar...and with x2 climbers on 2 ropes + 2 anchors individually) AND '1 primary line + back-up' (as per Schedule 5 of W@H Regs, i.e. the minimum requirement) employed very effectively.

 

So, please await publication of DRAFT TG1 (Technical Guide 1 - tree climbing and aerial rescue) and you'll have further opportunity to comment...please!

 

Thanks,

Paul 

 

PS As a matter of interest the HSE are fully aware of equal, if not bigger 'risks', in the industry, e.g. chainsaw cuts / impact injuries from falling branches etc., but their focus has been on 'climbing' incidentally because of the current industry guidance reviews (and accidents too.) They are also very well aware of challenges with the training side of the industry, or more specifically 'consolidation of skills', which is equally an employer responsibility....for another day! 

[MattyF]

There was absolutely nothing wrong though with the climbing aspect as we knew and used it, it fell apart when people are incapable of selecting safe anchors more importantly a large proportion of those accidents the ones where ropes where too short or they did not strop in to make cuts will never be advoided because that’s just Darwinism...

I’ve already had a serious near miss in two ropes with 400kg of beech in my lap but that will probably be down to not know the latest wah regs hey!

 

[Mark Bolam]

Badly thought out bullshit by a load of clipboard warriors Matty.

 

If two ropes and two anchors are called for to make any of my jobs safer you can rest assured I'll be using two ropes.

 

If I judge that two ropes will make any job LESS safe, then I'll be using one.

 

It's my arse on the line up there, not some suit who would be better off spending their time prosecuting unqualified and uninsured hackers.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Storm Ciara: Mercedes driver killed by falling tree as Britain wakes up to fresh devastation

WWW.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

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A Mercedes driver has become the first victim of Storm Ciara when he was killed by a falling tree crashing onto his car roof.

 

HSE to investigate the potential for all new cars to have 2 roofs in case of falling trees... ?

[TIMON]

Storm Ciara: Mercedes driver killed by falling tree as Britain wakes up to fresh devastation

WWW.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

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A Mercedes driver has become the first victim of Storm Ciara when he was killed by a falling tree crashing onto his car roof.

Storm Ciara: Mercedes driver killed by falling tree as Britain wakes up to fresh devastation

WWW.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

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A Mercedes driver has become the first victim of Storm Ciara when he was killed by a falling tree crashing onto his car roof.
 
HSE to investigate the potential for all new cars to have 2 roofs in case of falling trees... [emoji23]

What I don’t understand here is why insert ‘Mercedes’ into the headline? Is it because a Mercedes drivers life is more valuable, perhaps? Or maybe because KIA driver just doesn’t have the same ring to it..

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1 hour ago, MattyF said:

There was absolutely nothing wrong though with the climbing aspect as we knew and used it, it fell apart when people are incapable of selecting safe anchors more importantly a large proportion of those accidents the ones where ropes where too short or they did not strop in to make cuts will never be advoided because that’s just Darwinism...

I’ve already had a serious near miss in two ropes with 400kg of beech in my lap but that will probably be down to not know the latest wah regs hey!

 

Matty, please don't put yourself at risk by employing techniques that are unfamiliar to you or, in your opinion, make the job less safe which may include the use of 2 ropes where considered inappropriate.

However, use of a 'back-up line/system', with some exceptions / omissions on short duration works/activities, e.g. changeovers, (to be agreed), will be the 'new' norm including on access...depending how long it takes you to get up there

The W@H Reg Schedule 5 (1) section, which includes a requirement for use of a 'back-up line/system', is what HSE will measure against going forward and hence that is the challenge for us as an industry, collectively, but need not be the "2 ropes (to ground) + 2 anchors" we previously thought...although this could be an option.

Sorry, just repeating myself now .

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

3 hours ago, Mark Bolam said:

Badly thought out bullshit by a load of clipboard warriors Matty.

 

If two ropes and two anchors are called for to make any of my jobs safer you can rest assured I'll be using two ropes.

 

If I judge that two ropes will make any job LESS safe, then I'll be using one.

 

It's my arse on the line up there, not some suit who would be better off spending their time prosecuting unqualified and uninsured hackers.

Quite agree...so long as in using the one (rope) it's supplemented by a lanyard / flip-line etc. as appropriate, and 'load-bearing' if there's a risk of cutting the primary line...sound familiar?

 

Thanks for the reference to a warrior Mark, albeit with a clipboard, I cudda thought of much worse

 

Cheers'

"Reginald Spartacus"..

Edited February 10, 2020 by AA Teccie (Paul)
Word added

[Mark Bolam]

I do try and do things by the (old) book mate!