Pollards, the forgotten art-discussion

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Evolution is blind.

 

A limb fails due to decay, light hits a dormant bud, the tree can not "chose" to shed the limb.

 

it is not choosing per say, but through co evolutionary prosceses, defective (potentialy) genetics, summer branch drop and even fungi have all together formed part of a parcel of circumstances that in SOME cases lead to eternal life, or at the very least impressive longevity.

 

I will elaborate....

 

as for the science man, i do 100% understand and i am trying VERY VERY hard to learn the scientific methods.

 

in time i intend to,,,, i oughtta be carefull what i say here! dont want to give TOO much away!

 

with some training and the right environment i will push these theories to the outer limits, believe in me. there are so many things that are leading there, and uses for technologies that we havent yet been introduced to... patent pending is one guy who is developing a way of introducing fungal colinisation via chainsaw oils, i hope others will have input, push the limits of all our understandings.

[skyhuck]

I think we need to clarify what we mean by "immortality", some may argue that a tree is only as old as the living tissue and is in fact just a clone of its earlier self, how is this any better than its progeny??

 

My immortality is in the genes I have passed on to my children.

 

Cloning, unlike reproduction does not allow for genetic improvement and I would argue is less beneficial.

[skyhuck]

i thought big trees could shed limbs in summer.

 

I would say this is a "reaction" to conditions.

 

Trees are not conscious.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I think we need to clarify what we mean by "immortality", some may argue that a tree is only as old as the living tissue and is in fact just a clone of its earlier self, how is this any better than its progeny??

 

My immortality is in the genes I have passed on to my children.

 

Cloning, unlike reproduction does not allow for genetic improvement and I would argue is less beneficial.

 

I know what your saying, and I will reply to your next comment also in line.

 

Imortality in trees has distinct advantages, How many offspring could YOU produce? victorians managed about 14 before it kiled them in childbirth!

 

you get my point.

 

Shedding a limb in summer is admittedly a defect, BUT if it was detrimental and not "superior" method to retention its genes would have faded away and been lost to redundancy.

 

Trees living many centuries will have experianced great hardships in both biotic and abiotic forces, droughts would have been common throughout their life histories, droping a limb in times of drought would have very significant advantages, and it is often a very clean loss, with very little associated damge.

[skyhuck]

I know what your saying, and I will reply to your next comment also in line.

 

Imortality in trees has distinct advantages, How many offspring could YOU produce? victorians managed about 14 before it kiled them in childbirth!

 

you get my point.

 

.

 

 

I have 4.

 

A tree can produce hundreds of thousands, but if no trees died a to make room for the new, we would get no new "improved" trees.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I have 4.

 

A tree can produce hundreds of thousands, but if no trees died a to make room for the new, we would get no new "improved" trees.

 

skyhuck, the art of perpetuating ones genes is in reproduction, the longer you reproduce, the better YOUR individual genes chance of winning the "race" for want of a better terminology

 

trees that live longer have special abilities in surviving, so it stands to reason that also their offspring will, but there is even within a species great variation of forms and strengths.

 

what i am saying is that because of the effect some fungi tree relationships have, it has proved an advantage throughout ecological time and hence these trees genetics are still in evidence today.

[MattyF]

MattyF, did Shigo turn people against pollarding though? I thought he simply said that pollarding is properly done on a regular cycle and cut back to the same point, and therefore that chopping the ends/tops off branches whenever we feel like it does not constitute pollarding and should be avoided.

 

I never said he did ...i believe he was very open minded and most of his work was drawn from conclusions from watching nature do its own thing....unfortunietly people take his books like the bible most arborists out side of europe would not be prepared to try coronet cuts and entrenchment pruning just because its work not done to the specs in shigos modern arboriculture!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I never said he did ...i believe he was very open minded and most of his work was drawn from conclusions from watching nature do its own thing....unfortunietly people take his books like the bible most arborists out side of europe would not be prepared to try coronet cuts and entrenchment pruning just because its work not done to the specs in shigos modern arboriculture!

 

if shigo was the bearer of "modern arboriculture" then our generation shall be the bringers of "contemporary arboriculture" we must and are moving on. each great man enlightens us and gives us a new ground from which to set out on, it is up to each new generation of followers to "raise the game" further

 

the rest of the world look to us, there is a reason for this!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

for those that still believe the beech is a fragile beast.

 

natures own pollards exist

 

 

This beech (below )will be most likely felled soon, it lives along a footpath, deep in a wood, a SSSI, they are felling trees like this in the name of H+S no doubt.

 

this is the sort of thing that drives me to dispair, this wood is managed by watford council under the supervision of English nature, what are they palying at? not only will this tree be felled but it wont be done in an environmentaly sympathetic way. The contractors are making a mess of this wood, and have NO idea what damage they do with that mog.

 

Why not pollard this tree? why not if it does die from shock leave it as a monolith as habitat and why not let the wood lie as natural fodder in a site that is a sssi because of its amazing fungal diversity?

 

if we must sacrifice trees that live a million miles from "civilisation" why not learn from them or at the very least leave the debris alone.

 

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

The will to survive, a great one to be watching. if she doesnt lose too much in a failure this one could go on and on and on, maybe we should help?

 

Edited December 22, 2009 by Tony Croft aka hamadryad