National companies putting us a step back.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

7 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

 

Hi Paul, i know what you say is right. In the domestic sector we often get asked to do lopping and sometime you can’t convince the owner otherwise.

Luckily in Cambridgeshire our district councils, generally, are pretty good but i hear horror stories from my son (working for a big firm in London) where the TO’s just want every tree pollarded, no matter what species.

What i also hear is about the staff turnover and incompetencies which makes me think that these larger firms tendering for the contracts use a lot of cheap/inexperienced labour to keep their costs down.

I’m sure the firm has all their paperwork in place and staff have most of the appropriate tickets but we both know nptc’s no longer(and never have) been proof of competency - another topic.

 

I’ve always been in favour of a compulsory scheme to weed out the really bad ones, but that will never happen.

For myself, happy doing domestic work, the scheme doesn’t really boost my business appeal, in 15 years i could count on one hand the amount of times that I’ve been asked if I’m a member of a trade association. I self regulate the standards of work, do my own cpd and constantly aim to improve my business systems.

 

 

Thanks Ed.

 

The primary benefit of approval, potentially, for the small business doing mainly domestic work is as a "quality mark"...but one you would need to educate the customer in the value of, and, perhaps, a way of standing out from the 'tree surgery crowd' and particularly where the crowd is of the less than reputable fraternity.

 

Always happy to "come n take a look"  .

 

Best regards..

Paul

[Andrew McEwan]

1 hour ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

"quality mark"

Hi Paul,

Apologies if I have missed it elsewhere , but could you update the arbtalk masses on the Bartletts poplar incident and the AA response, and are they still using AAC status to complete tenders and as a mark of their quality?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

3 minutes ago, Andrew McEwan said:

Hi Paul,

Apologies if I have missed it elsewhere , but could you update the arbtalk masses on the Bartletts poplar incident and the AA response, and are they still using AAC status to complete tenders and as a mark of their quality?

Hi Andrew, thanks for your post...on behalf of the "arbtalk masses."

 

Consequential to the incident Bartlett's were prosecuted by the regulator / HSE (see http://www.hse.gov.uk/ProsecutionsHistory/case/case_details.asp?SF=CN&SV=4517829 ).

 

Thereafter we conducted a full reassessment to satisfy ourselves they had implemented the necessary improvements / preventative measures, which they actually did / completed before the HSE began their investigation into the incident.

 

Hence they have maintained their ARB Approved Contractor status and are doubtless using this to their commercial advantage.

 

Regards,

Paul 

 

PS Scary to think the incident was over 2.5 ago.. 

[Andrew McEwan]

Thanks Paul, interesting to see Bartletts at least got a £24K fine from HSE. Has the AA reviewed how the AAC scheme is assessed in light of the incident? Clients could be forgiven for thinking that AAC assessment isn't spotting serious short comings in contractors operations, if the poplar incident could occur in the first place.

 

The main improvement I have heard discussed is prior to site assessment it being necessary to submit a booked work diary, enabling AA assessors to choose a job and site at random, and turn up to see more of a true reflection of a contractors staff and operations rather than a staged/planned visit.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Andrew McEwan
typo

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

6 minutes ago, Andrew McEwan said:

Thanks Paul, interesting to see Bartletts at least got a £24K fine from HSE. Has the AA reviewed how the AAC scheme is assessed in light of the incident? Clients could be forgiven for thinking that AAC assessment isn't spotting serious short comings in contractors operations, if the poplar incident could occur in the first place.

 

The main improvement I have heard discussed is prior to site assessment it being necessary to submit a booked work diary, enabling AA assessors to choose a job and site at random, and turn up to see more of a true reflection of a contractors staff and operations rather than a staged/planned visit.

Hi Andrew,

 

I'm sure had we been on that site, on that day, at that time, we would have spotted any short-comings. The incident, whilst serious, n thankfully no-one was hurt, is exceptional IME, and I'm really not sure how the assessment process would / could have taken account of what happen and the circumstances surrounding it...and therefore what we need to review accordingly.

 

Your proposed improvement is fine in theory, and would probably work if the contractor had multiple teams operational, and if they were all undertaking the operations required by the standards, e.g. rigging, but this is often not the case. We do, at least to some extent and where possible, adopt the approach you outline, particularly at the interim reassessments where we have more flexibility, but, regardless, even the perceived "golden gang" that we allegedly see at every visit frequently present with 'opportunities for improvement.'

 

Always open to improvements and ideas so please "keep'um'rolling" but I'm now on the road for a few hours so it might be tomorrow before I can get back to view.

 

Thanks again for your interest in 'ARB Approval'

Paul

 

 

  

[Andrew McEwan]

I'm more cynical and think the poplar was perhaps just the incident that  crew didn't get away with, but either way if you view it as an exceptional case it shows the AAC sampling plan is missing those crews operating like that. I suspect you don't need me to give a run through of how to run certification to any particular standard, but any work like that is only as good as the sampling plan you start off with as per ISO 17021.

 

Re the work diary, nice to hear you are able to have some flexible visits, but if AAC needs to sample rigging activities the assessors sampling plan needs to reflect that and request that info. I think most contractors would mainly know where a rigging kit is going to come out beforehand.

[Mike Hill]

One aspect of AA certification that has puzzled me is,do the large companies have to pass by depot or team?

 

Or does one assessment of one depot/team pass the entire workforce Nation wide?

[eggsarascal]

50 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

One aspect of AA certification that has puzzled me is,do the large companies have to pass by depot or team?

 

Or does one assessment of one depot/team pass the entire workforce Nation wide?

I'd guess, and that's all it is, the vast majority of the certification is office based, with maybe a crew being actually assessed on site, If it's anything like some of the certification/accreditation in the trade I work in subbies are brought in to do the on site assessment. If it is it isn't worth the paper it's written on. Safe Contractor springs to mind. Happy to be corrected.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

4 hours ago, Andrew McEwan said:

I'm more cynical and think the poplar was perhaps just the incident that  crew didn't get away with, but either way if you view it as an exceptional case it shows the AAC sampling plan is missing those crews operating like that. I suspect you don't need me to give a run through of how to run certification to any particular standard, but any work like that is only as good as the sampling plan you start off with as per ISO 17021.

 

Re the work diary, nice to hear you are able to have some flexible visits, but if AAC needs to sample rigging activities the assessors sampling plan needs to reflect that and request that info. I think most contractors would mainly know where a rigging kit is going to come out beforehand.

In reality, with a reassessment visit once every two years, and a desktop review on the 'in between' years, we can only see so much and it is incumbent upon the approved contractor to self audit regularly and improve areas requiring such (this process is part of the evidence we require to see.)

 

Long drive, just arrived home, so gonna leave it there for tonight.

 

Regards,

Paul  

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

2 hours ago, Mike Hill said:

One aspect of AA certification that has puzzled me is,do the large companies have to pass by depot or team?

 

Or does one assessment of one depot/team pass the entire workforce Nation wide?

By depot / offices, i.e. at the point of service delivery. But once one depot is approved, which usually includes a Head Office audit, its difficult to control giving the impression the whole business is approved.

Paul