Advice on woodland planting

[Big J]

I was having a nice chat with some friends this morning about woodland planting. They've just over 9 hectares that they'd like to plant on their farm, spread across three compartments.

 

The ground conditions and aspect are all pretty similar. Reasonably free draining clay on north east facing slopes, with an average incline of 1 in 4. It's land that's too steep to manage for haylage and grazing doesn't bring much income.

 

What they are keen to do is to provide a legacy for their children, so a fairly short rotation would be required. 40 years or so. We chatted about the possibilities of hardwood, but agreed that almost all options would take too long to become profitable. I suggested considering softwood plantation.

 

Now not knowing a huge amount about planting, I'm keen to pick your collective brains on it. I don't think that sitka would do well on the slope as it's too dry, but my very modest knowledge on the subject suggests that douglas might be a reasonable option. Planted on a 40 year rotation, with reasonably regular thinning should result in a good windfall when eventually harvested. I'd suggested softwoods simply because the market is strong, the uses diverse and it can be mechanically harvested, which is important on a steep slope. 

 

As ever, I'm grateful for any advice.

 

 

[Yorkshire Brummie]

I was having a nice chat with some friends this morning about woodland planting. They've just over 9 hectares that they'd like to plant on their farm, spread across three compartments.
 
The ground conditions and aspect are all pretty similar. Reasonably free draining clay on north east facing slopes, with an average incline of 1 in 4. It's land that's too steep to manage for haylage and grazing doesn't bring much income.
 
What they are keen to do is to provide a legacy for their children, so a fairly short rotation would be required. 40 years or so. We chatted about the possibilities of hardwood, but agreed that almost all options would take too long to become profitable. I suggested considering softwood plantation.
 
Now not knowing a huge amount about planting, I'm keen to pick your collective brains on it. I don't think that sitka would do well on the slope as it's too dry, but my very modest knowledge on the subject suggests that douglas might be a reasonable option. Planted on a 40 year rotation, with reasonably regular thinning should result in a good windfall when eventually harvested. I'd suggested softwoods simply because the market is strong, the uses diverse and it can be mechanically harvested, which is important on a steep slope. 
 
As ever, I'm grateful for any advice.
 
 

Big J,
I’m no expert but from the bit of reading I’ve done and various stuff off the tinterweb I think your ideas are a pretty well informed choice. See the screen shot from an FT article a couple of years ago. Dougie firs seem to yield a good profit margin when comparing the growing cycle compared to other species.

Cheers

I

[spuddog0507]

what ever you or your friend/client decide to do, first thing to do is ask your local FC guy there are still grants available and espeically for creating new woodlands, new woodland grant is or was all fencing and gates paid for, trees, tubes and stakes supplied and then a  maitainance payment paid every year for up to ten years, if you was to contact the FC they would dissguss with you what payments are available for what type of trees planted, and i know they do like hard woods, one other point i can add is deer management as if not controlled you wont have any trees in 3 yrs, on a site i work on deer have destroyed about 6.5 hectare of spruce planted 2 year ago, the guys who have the stalking only go about twice a year,

[spuddog0507]

31 minutes ago, Yorkshire Brummie said:

Big J,
I’m no expert but from the bit of reading I’ve done and various stuff off the tinterweb I think your ideas are a pretty well informed choice. See the screen shot from an FT article a couple of years ago. Dougie firs seem to yield a good profit margin when comparing the growing cycle compared to other species.

Cheers

I

looking at those figures quoted sitka is by far the better option of yeild per year,

[Yorkshire Brummie]

looking at those figures quoted sitka is by far the better option of yeild per year,

The numbers suggest that, agreed Spud dog, Big J has reservations of Sitka flourishing on such a dry site though. As I said I’m no expert, but do you think they would still produce a better yield than Douglas F. if not in ideal
conditions?
Cheers
I

[spuddog0507]

2 minutes ago, Yorkshire Brummie said:

The numbers suggest that, agreed Spud dog, Big J has reservations of Sitka flourishing on such a dry site though. As I said I’m no expert, but do you think they would still produce a better yield than Douglas F. if not in ideal
conditions?
Cheers
I

i think best thing to do is find simular sites in the area with same ground conditions  that are planted all ready and ask the land owner when they where planted and ascess the trees for size and quality and that should give the answer, and a perfect example of that is 2 farmers near to me planted about 6000 nordman fir (for christmas trees) one farm will be cutting some 4-6ft trees for next christmas the other farm will be 2-3 years of that and its just down to ground conditions,

[Yorkshire Brummie]

i think best thing to do is find simular sites in the area with same ground conditions  that are planted all ready and ask the land owner when they where planted and ascess the trees for size and quality and that should give the answer, and a perfect example of that is 2 farmers near to me planted about 6000 nordman fir (for christmas trees) one farm will be cutting some 4-6ft trees for next christmas the other farm will be 2-3 years of that and its just down to ground conditions,

Field trial [emoji106][emoji106]

[drinksloe]

Duunno if relevant but when u head north up the A9 in scotland from the soaking wet SW where sitka does well on the drier soils/drier climate they seem to have some great straight stands of larch and even scots pine.

Doubtful if planting larch is a very good idea (althou if it cold survive PR until harvested might be worth a fortune) i ws on a small estatethe other day and a lot of 10-15 yr old larch were outgrowing the SS planted  at same time (althou larch now needing felled cause of PR)

[slack ma girdle]

Get yourself a copy of this Jonathan, it is really really good1550300166386

[Rough Hewn]

Out on a limb here....
What about mixed planting?
Hardwoods and softwoods.
Plant a wide variety of species.
Selective thinning of pioneer trees after 20-25 years.
A beautiful woodland, rich in biodiversity, would produce a broad variety of products.
And would be great to walk through as it matures,
What would be better to leave for future generations?
Not just ****ing monoculture ecological desert.
Think beyond the £££
[emoji106]