Reduction Pruning

[RC0]

13 hours ago, treeseer said:

What's proper depends on the objective.  When will the tree be pruned again?

 

For most jobs, you're right; I would flunk the school of thought that calls for such big cuts and so much asset removed.  btw I quit being ISA certified in 2004, and follow international standards more than the I/USA's A300.

 

Also, thanks for the info on chaps; not used to seeing them used in trees.  When cuts are <6", the chainsaw stays on the ground.

 

Carry on!

You quit the ISA ? Good for you. Thanks for correcting me on that note.

 

I tell clients that all pruning is wounding. But pruning can also mitigate certain undesirable situations, whether aesthetic or structural....depending on what extent the tree will tolerate. There is always a compromise. Although I am what you'd call a qualified arborist, my judgement in such situations doesn't come from a book or classroom....rather its from pruning thousands of trees through the years, and thereafter observing the effect of that work. Summer limb drop in Gary oaks is not a rare occurrence in this region. This particular tree stretches over 3 properties, 2 of which hold small children as residents. Not realistic to create an exclusion zone of such a large area. So, reducing leverage is the most logical strategy in my experience. We will get a reaction of epicormic growth thereafter. Not the most pleasing to the eye, but at least the photosynthetic material will be restored to an extent. The pruning cuts not even noticeable from the ground. What small pockets of decay may evolve are generally in non critical areas. I wouldnt prune that tree for 3 years now, if at all. You could classify it a co-dominant structure, with the smaller section making up 1/3 of the tree, perhaps not clear in the video. It does have a bad union at the join which is shown at the end if the video. I would like to gradually further reduce that whole section....but thats a long term thing.

[treeseer]

10 hours ago, RC0 said:

You quit the ISA ? Good for you. Thanks for correcting me on that note.

 

Not quit; it's a good place to network still.  I quit being a CA, to be a BCMA.

 

As far as reducing leverage goes, 15% off the end can increase stability 50% or more.  No need for major whacking.  For instance, the tree in the attached poster, 90%+ hollow, was retained with a light reduction, using a polesaw and handsaw.

http://www.historictreecare.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/AREA-140801.pdf

Check out the brushpile, and the after shot.  A little goes a long way.. 

 

Books and classrooms are half of the story, so don't put them down so fast. 

[RC0]

1 hour ago, treeseer said:

Not quit; it's a good place to network still.  I quit being a CA, to be a BCMA.

 

As far as reducing leverage goes, 15% off the end can increase stability 50% or more.  No need for major whacking.  For instance, the tree in the attached poster, 90%+ hollow, was retained with a light reduction, using a polesaw and handsaw.

http://www.historictreecare.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/AREA-140801.pdf

Check out the brushpile, and the after shot.  A little goes a long way.. 

 

Books and classrooms are half of the story, so don't put them down so fast. 

Not quit; it's a good place to network still.  I quit being a CA, to be a BCMA.

 

As far as reducing leverage goes, 15% off the end can increase stability 50% or more.  No need for major whacking.  For instance, the tree in the attached poster, 90%+ hollow, was retained with a light reduction, using a polesaw and handsaw.

http://www.historictreecare.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/AREA-140801.pdf

Check out the brushpile, and the after shot.  A little goes a long way.. 

 

Books and classrooms are half of the story, so don't put them down so fast. 

Ive lost count of how many ISA cert Arbs hired me to do what they cant do. Even more ironic was often the case that the work should only be performed by an ISA certified arb as specified by municipal bylaw. But then the ISA arborist in fact brings in a non ISA certified arborist (me) to do the work after all. Through 20+ years as a subcontract climber, I worked for over 150 companies through 4 countries. Trees of all species, sizes and situations. Not even counting the years served before and after that period. So its kinda funny to read you telling me about 15% reduction having a stabalizing effect of 50% etc....like that would be news to me....or any other member of the forum for that matter. And then showing me photo of some random roadside tree and a pile of brush on the floor!

 

Never asked me how PNW Gary oaks resond to pruning. Never asked me what recommendations were or limitations were imposed on such a protected tree by the municipal Arborist. Never thought to ask me what percentage of foliage I felt like was removed from the tree. Never asked me what portion of the tree was left completely untouched. Never asked me about the clients circumstances, budget....or plans to retain ownership of the property itself. I could go on.

 

That your a board certified master arborist means zero to me....and you further reinforced that with your assumptions through 2 posts here. You'd make a much better impression by asking questions, relevant questions instead of wagging your finger at people and circumstances that you've neither met nor know nothing about....or just not even paying attention i.e the non existent spurs that you said I shouldnt be wearing. Thats why I said earlier, lets not waste each others time. We apples and oranges 

[RC0]

Sorry, Guy, if that sounded a little sharp. I got a cold coming on so not in the best mood. Just ignore 

[treeseer]

I'll try to ignore, but...scan up the thread and you'll see me asking about the objective, and the % removed.  And got no reply to those points.  Yes, asking gets one info; telling not.  And believe me I share your contempt for undereducated CA's full of themselves, many times over!

 

re apples and oranges, everyone in every country can say "O you are different--nevermind!"  And many do, yet in fact trees are trees, and people are people.  Sorry I missed you a year ago in Abbottsford with Dr. Dunster, or 2 years ago in Bend OR with PNWISA.  Next time, look me up!  Windsor ON in Feb '19, etc.

 

Meanwhile, ditch the chaps and the chainsaw and take a lighter dose off those trees; it'll be easier on them, and you!

Take some lemon juice and a wee dram for the cold, and please publish your work beyond arbtalk someday!

Edited August 30, 2018 by treeseer

[RC0]

37 minutes ago, treeseer said:

I'll try to ignore, but...scan up the thread and you'll see me asking about the objective, and the % removed.  And got no reply to those points.  Yes, asking gets one info; telling not.  And believe me I share your contempt for undereducated CA's full of themselves, many times over!

 

re apples and oranges, everyone in every country can say "O you are different--nevermind!"  And many do, yet in fact trees are trees, and people are people.  Sorry I missed you a year ago in Abbottsford with Dr. Dunster, or 2 years ago in Bend OR with PNWISA.  Next time, look me up!  Windsor ON in Feb '19, etc.

 

Meanwhile, ditch the chaps and the chainsaw and take a lighter dose off those trees; it'll be easier on them, and you!

Take some lemon juice and a wee dram for the cold, and please publish your work beyond arbtalk someday!

If I wanted to see or speak with Dunster, I could probably drive to his house in 15 mins. But I dont care to speak to him anymore than he would I. At least while I have way more significant individuals and situations to deal with. 

 

I just looked back and realise you did in fact ask about the percentage removed. Guilty on that one. To answer, 15-20 % max was removed. To see the tree from a far or underneath youd barely notice it'd been touched. Sometimes you have to be there.

 

Trees, species, growing habits and potential do vary from region to region, country and climate. People too.... values, communication, priorities, objectives, standards, expectations, agendas. Our workplace is no exception. Having walked that path, the differences are undeniable between countries and culture. Some subtle, some are huge. Most recent for me is that between the UK and Canada. I could go into much detail but Ill spare you.

 

It shouldn't surprise you to hear that I use handsaws all the time....when theres justification to do so. I guess you missed those parts in the video. I touched on something earlier 'how much will the tree tolerate'. That was a 4 hour job including cleanup. Fixed price, not hourly. The ideal situation between client, contracter, expectations and funding is often different  than the true reality of whats achievable. More often than not theres compromise.

 

Ive shared lots if work and ideas outside of Arbtalk, seems as you mention it. Shared with hundred of co workers and thousands of clients, millions on youtube....and made some money through product sales too. My rep could actually  be a lot worse. Thanks.

[Stubby]

brilliant thread !

[treeseer]

Sounds good; would love to climb with you someday.

 

We could explore that country/culture myth, and the handsaw "when needed" myth as well, when we have time.

[Mick Dempsey]

1 hour ago, treeseer said:

Sounds good; would love to climb with you someday.

 

We could explore that country/culture myth, and the handsaw "when needed" myth as well, when we have time.

Guy, I seem to recall you came to France a few years back, did you form any impressions about attitudes to pruning here?

 

Be interested in your opinions.

[stihlmadasever]

On 30/08/2018 at 03:53, RC0 said:

Sorry, Guy, if that sounded a little sharp. I got a cold coming on so not in the best mood. Just ignore 

That ended quite amicabley....

I was lookin forward to a good spat there...