Free will or lack of.......

[tree-fancier123]

20 minutes ago, WesD said:

Inventors more than likely made the choice to have free will for they had to think and invent something that never existed and in that sense couldn’t have been guided by experience of past thoughts they had to train the brain so to speak to think of something for its first time and creation of thought created invention.

all animals have problem solving skills - I can't see why human primates should be able to control their own destiny. I'm not saying inventors havent done something I admire, just seems to me that they did it because they had to, not just because they could.

 

there was a study somewhere of learning via telepathy -something about monkeys learning to fish adrift bananas from the sea with a stick and another group of monkeys elsewhere were observed to learn the same trick instantaneously almost, of course this doesnt prove telepathy or disprove, but it was a possible example.

Telepathy if it exists may be explainable by physics - electromagnetic waves like radio waves acting to depolarize and fire neurons via exciting the ion channels in nerve membranes - if so a telepathic connection could be severed by hiding inside a lead room

Edited January 1, 2018 by tree-fancier123

[WesD]

11 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

all animals have problem solving skills - I can't see why human primates should be able to control their own destiny. I'm not saying inventors havent done something I admire, just seems to me that they did it because they had to, not just because they could.

 

there was a study somewhere of learning via telepathy -something about monkeys learning to fish adrift bananas from the sea with a stick and another group of monkeys elsewhere were observed to learn the same trick instantaneously almost, of course this doesnt prove telepathy or disprove, but it was a possible example.

Telepathy if it exists may be explainable by physics - electromagnetic waves like radio waves acting to depolarize and fire neurons via exciting the ion channels in nerve membranes - if so a telepathic connection could be severed by hiding inside a lead room

No I disagree there are a hell of a lot of inventions that are unique however we don’t need, telephone being 1. 

[Vespasian]

26 minutes ago, WesD said:

 

Inventors more than likely made the choice to have free will for they had to think and invent something that never existed and in that sense couldn’t have been guided by experience of past thoughts they had to train the brain so to speak to think of something for its first time and creation of thought created invention. 

 

I think you might be confusing predeterminismn with fatalismn...  predeterminismn simply means your mind sends signals that act on your conscious mind..   the mind that is free is the one behind the curtain..   fatalismn is when you think its all the will of allha.

 

At least thats how I read it..

[WesD]

4 minutes ago, Vespasian said:

 

I think you might be confusing predeterminismn with fatalismn...  predeterminismn simply means your mind sends signals that act on your conscious mind..   the mind that is free is the one behind the curtain..   fatalismn is when you think its all the will of allha.

 

At least thats how I read it..

It’s not about reading it as that states your believing what your told so you’ll have no free will as your told you don’t. 

 

Its more how you feel as to what you believe. This is why I only used this thread as a guide to look within. Now I know what I believe I’ll start on the videos for both sides of the debate however I doubt it will change what I believe as I have my answers from soul searching not google and YouTube searching. 

[tree-fancier123]

6 minutes ago, WesD said:

No I disagree there are a hell of a lot of inventions that are unique however we don’t need, telephone being 1. 

Ok so Bell worked tirelessly in the lab on a problem he was immersed in of his own free will. He was a genius and no doubt about it humans can survive perfectly well without technology, but his work may have happened completely because of his neural biology and environment, not because his brain created some executive power that let him decide what to do.

 

[tree-fancier123]

People like  to feel they have some control over their lives, so the sciency stuff  can be hard to swallow

[WesD]

6 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

People like  to feel they have some control over their lives, so the sciency stuff  can be hard to swallow

 Not at all. 

 

What would happen if you if you decided to quit work and stay at home with no income?

 

Could you choose to do so? Yes. 

 

Will you? Probably not is that you controlling your life? Yes. 

 

Is control and free will the same?

[skyhuck]

In my experience people who are unsuccessful or unhappy with their lives are keen to look for reasons outside themselves for their lack of success. While those who do well KNOW that is generally down to shear hard work.

 

Many years ago a lad who was subbing to me, but also ran his own struggling firm, said to me "we are not all as lucky as you Dave" 

 

My reply was " its funny, the harder I've worked the luckier I've got" 

[tree-fancier123]

45 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

While those who do well KNOW that is generally down to shear hard work.

one of my customers has a farm - really nice place, she said for six months when they first started her and her husband went to bed at midnight and got up at three, can hardly believe any human can survive on three hours sleep, but she said is was when she was young before they bought the big place, don't think I could do six months of three hours sleep, 6 hours minimum, I do believe her story though

[skyhuck]

1 minute ago, tree-fancier123 said:

one of my customers has a farm - really nice place, she said for six months when they first started her and her husband went to bed at midnight and got up at three, can hardly believe any human can survive on three hours sleep, but she said is was when she was young before they bought the big place, don't think I could do six months of three hours sleep, 6 hours minimum, I do believe her story though

Not sure what your point is?

 

They got the bigger place because of hard work by the sounds to things. Are you saying they would have succeeded regardless?